Group build feedback and advice thread

[En1gma]

Also keep in mind that maxing out a talent looks appetizing, and it is for buffs, but attack talents will chew through insane amounts of SP.

As for weapons, I like Maces or Spears for a BR build. Maces for max damage, Spears for predictable damage when using BR.

Fyona gets a shield.

Vincent goes staffs.

Selen 2AP both. She can use 3AP bows if you need the range, but you'll not be able to curse as effectively.

[ashnana]

Thanks Enigma, that wraps it up pretty well.

Last thing I am confused about is attributes and skills like sorcery, lore, leadership etc.

You mentioned mostly con for Vraes. What about attributes for the others?

And what is a good amount for leadership and lore like skills? Don't bother with them?

[En1gma]

You may tweak this depending on your difficulty. If you're playing on Nightmare, then you can skip the Lore/Int points and focus on your accuracy.

Vraes:
Con primary and Str secondary. He will also need a point or two somewhere for Int, but that's up to your needs.
For Skills, he will need to go to 16 on whatever weapon he's using, but on the way he could use some points in Leadership and Lore if you want some extra turns (Depending on your buffs. Not a bad idea to skip Leadership actually. In a long battle, sometimes it would be beneficial to let BR fade out so you can have your defenses back, but as always this is dependent on your play style). As long as you make your weapon a priority, he can spare a few points for lore/lead.

Vincent:
Up to your preferences. I usually split between Int and Con. LS 10 is expensive, so he needs to have a sizeable Spirit pool to draw upon. Con helps when he has to take a few hits from archers...
Sorcery 16 is a priority, but if you plan on using a curse, you'll need to invest in Conjuring to hit extra targets. If his accuracy is fine, dump a point or two here if you get them.

Fyona:
She needs to go pretty much all in on Con, with a point here and there for Str and Int. Remember she will need all the HP and toughness she can get, which is where Con comes in.
Ignore Lore. Go all in on Hammers, with a few points in Leadership to extend SoC. Hammers will add to her dice pool for both offense and defense, so for a tank it's her most important skill by far.

Selen:
If you're going with a switch hitter, I go 2:1 Dex:Con, with a point or two in Int.
Skills I go all Blades, with a smattering of points for Lore (Buff extension) and Stealth-- just to keep ahead of the curve.

Let me know if you have any more questions-- I hope this helps!

[ashnana]

Alright, the epic has started on hard difficulty.

I'll keep you posted on how the adventure shapes up. Many thanks and exalts for all the helpful lore Enigma.

[mg979]

Jun 20, 2016 20:10:56 GMT -5 En1gma said:

NM doesn't need more than a single point until later unless it's going to be the primary focus of his build. Honestly the returns it gives are not worth passing up on his other talents.

As far as SSk is concerned, It's a matter of preference and build. If you're skipping Berserk Rage then you should be putting points into Phalanx or focusing on SSk. If you're going BR you're going to want something to offset the negative effects, which is where SSk or Fervor would come in. When using BR, Vraes can use Phalanx, but because BR sucks armor and Parry , the only real benefit to it becomes the ranged auto-block. By using SSk and a shield, he still gets a great HP bonus and only loses out on a measure of armor, as Phalanx doesn't touch shields.

Vraes likes to be as self sufficient as possible unless he's running FEROCITY, then he relies on Kyera for Sacrifice.

Best part about this game are the different ways to play it

BR drains 6 Parry at most, if you have SoC/WS/gear those 6 points are drained anyway. Auto-block is the main reason I left Kincaid for Vraes right now. On NM Kincaid got killed too many times, now I'm in Ep2 with Vraes, no deaths atm. Still, he doesn't do much damage so I'm trying to find a way to make him better.

Right now he's SSw 3, PS 10, BR 1

[Someone]

The 2 standard dice of Natural Mastery 1 are slightly better acc gain than the strong die going ssw 2-3, plus added parry.

Auto block is good, but Kincaid should not be hit much more than Vraes. Did you re-up Sure Parry when he blocked a melee? His dodge and parry drop to the topmost level of your remaining melee auto blocks left.

e.g. Kincaid has SP 4, auto parries one hit, SP becomes 3 effectively, gets hit by a melee fighter again and SP expires needs to re-up on your turn. Kincaid can aso stealth armor for better dodge instead of Vraes mighty shield option.

BR really ups damage considerably, way more than it makes Vraes vulnerable imo. Tho it is the main talent I don't want auto buff to work on, as it's the only talent that makes you MORE vulnerable. Can't wait for 3+ ap weapons gaining bigger crits.

[matrim]

I love how different of an experience this game is for people. I personally can't leave Kincaid, he is vulnerable in chapter 1 against ranged but after numerous playthroughs I can LoS almost all archer shots now. Shaman get shots off but generally they are debuffed and only get 1 (albeit, really hard hitting) shot off a round. Kincaid really shines later game when he can guarantee block those 500 damage melee hits from warlords and group buff accuracy and damage.

[fallen]

Jun 28, 2016 5:39:56 GMT -5 matrim said:

I love how different of an experience this game is for people. I personally ...

Me too! As the designer, it makes me major happy

[tran]

hey matrim, have you ever tried a dex shield Vraes? It is AMAZING!!! . Granted, he is kinda selfish and only buff himself, but boy oh boy, he is a complete bulwark! No baddies could hit my charging berserker in ep 5, not even the Weaver and the wise blood, and IF he is hitted, his toughess would kick in!
Then again, I am playing a str 2 handed Vraes now, and I can see why people like big number...
Also the lovely 0 keeps popping up...

[matrim]

It's so hard to get away from Kincaid for me. The 100% block is a godsend in ironman games and I just love Flanking Unity so much, it covers so many accuracy issues. Although the art change and the buffs to Vraes have got me really tempted...

[Ozwryx]

Just wanted to give a shout out of thanks to En1gma and ashnana for the posts you made around 6/20-6/21. I've been following a lot of that advice, and it's been working well. I'm off to a solid start and having a blast. My Selen is less melee and more balanced, but otherwise the build is pretty close. I appreciate the time and thought y'all put into those posts.

[En1gma]

Always glad to be of service

[En1gma]

So, I haven't played this game or made a new group in months... Too long.

Seeing as I've made an ungodly amount of groups so far, the only way I can pick the game back up is to make a group that will look so awesome in the end game that it would surpass anything else I've tried.

This group I'm calling The Jewels of the Underdeep
The entire idea here is to make them the most powerful incarnations of themselves, fully befitting their... status.

Vraes is played out for me for now, and Kincaid is just so damn classy. Kincaid makes the cut, and then some. What is his best attribute? Dodge and avoidance. What does he have that Vraes doesn't: Throwing Knives and guaranteed auto-block. He also gets a group buff, so that will need to be included.
So for Knicaid I want to get Footwork 10, Sure Parry 7, and Darting Steel to its max AoE template. Once he has this, Flanking Unity will start adding extra damage, but if it's not needed I'll forgo it. So with all this

Vincent is the obvious choice for such a flashy group. What does he have over old Kjartan: Melee viability. He can also hit AP and drop enemy resistance.
For Vincent, I want him to get Sundering 10. Supplementing this will be Charged Speed, at least to +4MP. He possesses the game's most potent self-speed buff, so that obviously needs to be included. Melee viability is nothing if the group is left in harm's way, so he will get Flash Freeze up to max AP removal and AoE (level 7, I think-- correct me if I'm wrong). He will also strive for getting either Energy Storm to maximum, or go for Thundering Blades if the group needs the extra damage.

Fyona has the potential to be the most powerful character in the game, frankly. I'll fight you. With the mighty power of Holy Strickening, she can easily surpass the likes of Kjartan's paltry Choking ash in terms of obliterating enemy defenses. Comparing her directly to Kyera, Fyona's combat presence is immediately apparent. While she lacks a direct AP curse, she is able to make up for this with Reckoning. The real appeal of Reckoning in this group will be the insane amount of Holy Damage it accrues.
She wants Strickening 10, Shield of Cortias 10, and Reckoning to finally emerge on the scene as a force to be reckoned with.

Selen, dearest Selen... I thought about Tamilin for this party, and while she crushes Selen on the Damage aspect, Selen provides the group with a powerhouse switch-hitter side that Tamilin would kill to have. Seriously, I think she would put an arrow through someone's epiglottis just to have the same type of presence that Selen has. Selen gets the nod for a few reasons-- As always, Pinning Shot is king, and will provide steady AP removal alongside Flash Freeze for the entirety of the campaign. I also need an off-tank to work alongside Kincaid until Fyona gets the team defenses solidified.
Selen goes Quicksilver Defense, Pinning Shot 8, Dance of Shadows up to +3MP. Punishing Blades makes armored enemies wish they had never come to face Death's Chosen.

As you can see, each character plays to their own strengths, each coming into their most powerful incarnations, not worrying about the others. This approach will merge the four to make one super power.

Strickening, Energy Storm, and Sundering will lay waste to crowds. Strickening will allow Kincaid to rain death with his TK, and Selen to skewer those out of reach with an overabundance of elemental damage. Sundering will allow Vincent to follow up Strickening to obliterate his enemies, then dart out of range with Charged Speed. Kincaid dances around the battlefield, laughing at his enemy's futile attempts at reaching him. So in a way, each of their individual strengths becomes everyone's strength.

OK, enough talking, time to get to it.

[fallen]

En1gma - killer post, can't wait to hear more about this group as it comes to life!

[wascalwywabbit]

Between PS, DS, FF, HS and reckoning you're gonna be nerfing dodge+parry up to 3-4 times each so except for improving group dmg die size by up to 24 I'm not sure if FU +acc makes much sense for this group - it may still be nice before everything is debuffed tho. What you may be lacking for is a good 1 range melee for Kincaid, and Flashing blades is pretty sweet for that as I think its buff works for DS as well as itself making a potent 1-2 punch. Surely there will be times when an enemy is dumb enough to melee tango with Kincaid of its own choice, plus those times you need to SP tank a heavy up close and personal. Otherwise LbtB for mp is nice.

CA is still great though, even with strickening, especially when you have no other -parry and you got 1+ melee users - that and it's range is very nice... Fyona's a lead foot no matter what -or you give up plenty of gear options for mp to keep up with my skirmish and range builds to stricken enemies to their death.