Group build feedback and advice thread

[En1gma]

Sept 11, 2016 23:47:33 GMT -5 wascalwywabbit said:

Between PS, DS, FF, HS and reckoning you're gonna be nerfing dodge+parry up to 3-4 times each so except for improving group dmg die size by up to 24 I'm not sure if FU +acc makes much sense for this group - it may still be nice before everything is debuffed tho. What you may be lacking for is a good 1 range melee for Kincaid, and Flashing blades is pretty sweet for that as I think its buff works for DS as well as itself making a potent 1-2 punch. Surely there will be times when an enemy is dumb enough to melee tango with Kincaid of its own choice, plus those times you need to SP tank a heavy up close and personal. Otherwise LbtB for mp is nice.

CA is still great though, even with strickening, especially when you have no other -parry and you got 1+ melee users - that and it's range is very nice... Fyona's a lead foot no matter what -or you give up plenty of gear options for mp to keep up with my skirmish and range builds to stricken enemies to their death.

Good points, every one of them. For Kincaid's 1 range, I think it's easily solved by a point into Storm of Steel. With the amount of elemental damage we'll be able to put out, this will still crush. If he really starts dropping behind, then I'll look into upping Flashing Blades, as that will help add overall damage through crit percentage.

Our boost_in gave is a pair of Alken(?) Boots, and three Flashing Rings. I gave two of which to Vincent, and one to Fyona, but she may switch one with Vincent if she needs the mobility. Her role until way later is to provide buff/curse support. Once she can, she'll add her point in Reckoning then get back to maxing out her keystone talents. She will eventually switch to a 2H hammer and invest heavily in Reckoning. My reasoning here is that with Strickening maxed out, she will be able to put the massive amount of Holy damage Reckoning grants to maximum effect.

Like I said, it's an end-game centric build. It may struggle at points, but I'm looking forward to watching them come into their own.

[En1gma]

Also remember that his main DPS will come via TK, and will act as point blank AoE attack (+12 damage as of now, plus elemental). He will act as more of a setter for Vincent to sneak in and f-king nuke with Sundering. This group will combo off so very hard

[wascalwywabbit]

Like I said, flashing buffs DS ... or so I think? It should allow 1 extra crit a turn or so on avg. Whether that's better than the slight party bump that FU is I dunno, but it does give one range option other than lunge. I'm also not so sure SoS AoE is necessary since you're already maximizing DS AoE.

When I've played TK Kincaid, I haven't missed having SoS since the AoE was added to DS, and I do like combining FU and/or FB with any of his AoE for extra acc and dmg.

Still, there's no going wrong, you've got a killer base crew setup, so it's all gravy from there, just which brand of gravy do you like best.

[wascalwywabbit]

En1gma

Have you tried -strickening 10> ZS 10> reckoning 10+ holy dmg gear?

That's a potent 7ap combo against those super weak vs holy (-100 or more, it's overkill otherwise :-p).

[En1gma]

I haven't yet, but it looks OP as hell

[En1gma]

Really a challenging group to play for now. Decent equipment on the boost-in, but their single-target damage leaves something to be desired. Considering replacing Selen with Tamilin, just to have some real damage output. Vincent is more than capable of focused AP removal, and far more steady at it than Pinning Shot, as it doesn't require damage to take effect.

I'm open to some input on it... I love Selen, but I'm thinking of forgoing Strickening until later and focusing Fyona on Shield of Cortias. I like having Pinning Shot, but next to Darting Steel it falls short because Vincent is far more efficient at cursing, has the mobility to get it done faster, and it makes sense for him to spend his first turn or two cursing, then coming in to exploit the weaknesses caused by the rest of the party.

Torrent of Steel allows Tamilin to curse resistance, taking some of the burden off of Strickening, which wouldn't come fully into play until later. It also allows her to stand her ground on the spawn and immediately affect the surrounding enemies to pave the way for the remainder of the group to take their positions.

This group will struggle to remove enemies from the board (as they stand right now) until they reach mid E2 when their attacks come to fruition, so I'm struggling at the moment.

[xdesperado]

En1gma don't forget that Selen can remove AP at a greater range than Tam.
Haven't used Vincent yet myself so not sure what range is on his -AP curse.

[matrim]

Tamilin vs Selen is always a hard choice for me. Right now I think Tamilin ekes out in the lead for me. Her superior damage via ToS and better AP cursing is just so good. She also increases everyone else's damage significantly with ToS and can even let you hold off on strickening for a bit and let you build SoC. The minor res debuff stands well on its own till about level 25 and that is almost exactly when you can start pumping strickening. Selen brings excellent tanking into the picture. The advantage of bringing her imo is that you can build Kincaid into a light tank (Sure Parry 4 only) and then build his DS and FU to make sure that everything is hit all the time. Selen is safer for a few of the dangerous fights as well. Most notable being Big V and Gholla.

[En1gma]

Sept 12, 2016 12:09:11 GMT -5 xdesperado said:

En1gma don't forget that Selen can remove AP at a greater range than Tam.
Haven't used Vincent yet myself so not sure what range is on his -AP curse.

Vincent's range on Flash Freeze is 6, but can reach 7 with the template.

The other thing that was bugging me is that Selen was the only one who didn't play to her own strengths. Yes she can do both, but not as well as she could be with either all melee (Punishing Blades/QsD), or all ranged (Pinning Shot/DoS). Yes she is very effective, no denying it, but Pinning Shot would be more useful for the group and not for her own glory. This group means to make each of them their most powerful, and have that be the group dynamic.

Tam will also allow the group to have a more effective armor curse with Silent Stalker... We'll see how they do.

[xdesperado]

Afraid I'm a Selen fanboy but PS combined with her ability to strip armor while holding line as off tank is so hard to pass up.

[En1gma]

I know, I love Selen...

I still really want to see another boost in point; there is such a steep demand for hours and hours of playtime just to check build viability...

[wascalwywabbit]

Sept 12, 2016 15:38:11 GMT -5 En1gma said:

I know, I love Selen...

I still really want to see another boost in point; there is such a steep demand for hours and hours of playtime just to check build viability...

Did you give her better than the ice bow? I know people stick with that at boost-in, but better is available I thought.

Edit: By that I mean if you're shy of dmg, every little bit will help (check everyone's gear vs the boost-in's shop to make sure the best dmg is equipped?). Selen to me is melee first, she could easily be put into the warrior slot if it weren't for the lvl 9 req. for QsD imo.

If you want to keep Selen then maybe try respeccing her (1 respec for each char with boost-in don't forget- that's 2+ builds per boost-in ) for PB first and wait on PS for AoE later. PB will help team D too, by nerfing dmg a bit, and you're OP on acc aid and under powered on dmg, so that's why the trade off imo. But I think DoS is necessary for melee for the mp, but yes the crit helps AoE PS more.

Another option is not lvling DS yet in favor of FU, He could still hit up to 7 targets at boost in that way with DS and still helps team acc, but with FU he also helps team dmg.

Are you lvling TB and strickening E.g. FF6, ChrgdSpd2 and TB 3? If yes and you're still under powered then maybe swap vinny for Kjartan and CA/MS?

[crimsonking]

Sept 12, 2016 14:22:59 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Sept 12, 2016 12:09:11 GMT -5 xdesperado said:

En1gma don't forget that Selen can remove AP at a greater range than Tam.
Haven't used Vincent yet myself so not sure what range is on his -AP curse.

Vincent's range on Flash Freeze is 6, but can reach 7 with the template.

8, but as with all templates, there has to be a primary target in the right position. On the other hand FF always hits. PS doesn't. Since AP curses are on many occasions essential (think of the Deathkin), this is of importance.

[En1gma]

Feb 23, 2016 15:34:00 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Indeed it is. This was a group idea so good sounding, I actually started a group from the beginning. They just wouldn't fare as well, nor would they get the perfect armor on a boost-in. I set them up differently from yourself, and I'm having a blast with this team so far.

The Gloomwalkers: All level 7, but just spent their points...

Vraes-- Efficiency & STR Build. 420 HP, 28 Armor. Running 1H Spears for reliable damage bands.
Talents- Crushing Blow 2 (3 Spirit cost, dealing 18(26 from STR) - 43). Stone Skin 3, BoS 2
Attributes- 8 STR, 8 CON, 3 INT
Skills- 7 Polearms, 3 Lore
--> He will be going for CB 4, BoS 3, and SSk 4, then going all in on BR till about 3 or 4 before it drops the next point of Parry off his Stats. Vraes is doing very well, and I'm very much loving the new STR rules for Vraes, especially with Spears, as it finally gets me to a near perfect consistency with his damage, allowing me in the end to predict exactly how much SP drain he will get back.
--> The whole goal with this group is to be nearly self sufficient, and self-powering, and CB works perfectly to this end. I will be able to keep CB leveled to the amount of SP Vraes gets back and once he gets BR up and running, he will be all set.

Kjartan-- FB/BB build, leveling Ash to keep pace with armor.
Talents- FB 3, Ash 2, BB 2
--> You get the idea- FB is cheap enough that while he likely won't ever make ALL the SP used, he will eventually make up more than half, which makes him stupid cheap to use and will require less points into INT

Kyera-- Striker/Support build
Talents- Tears 2, Warder's Shield 4
Attributes- 8 CON, 6 INT
Skills- 7 Hammers, 3 Conj,
--> Slow build, but connects reliably for decent damage. Will work her way up to WS 8+, while throwing a point or two into Smiting, then eventually getting to Sac 2, if the group even needs it. If they don't, then she works on Smiting 4, WS 10, and Tears 4-5. EA 4 for cross-shape. I'm not expecting her to have a net gain like @rearick , but with the rest of the group being mostly self-powering, she can work the sides and control the battle with Smiting and EA.

Selen: Melee Focused Switch-hitter.
Talents- Frenzied 2, PS 3, DoS 1
Attributes- 6 DEX, 8 CON, 5 INT
Skills- 8 Blades, 3(11) Stealth
--> I'm not going past PS 4 for a while, which gives me an extra point to bank for QsD. She is hitting fairly well at this point, and is cleaning up nicely when I need her the most. Due to the lack of a decent Parry knife before the Vrotta, I'm relying on Kyera slightly more to off-tank, and darting Selen in to go hilt deep on a weakened rat or two before she ducks back out to one point of enemy contact, reducing her damage intake. I'm going QsD 5 early so she can tank better, and will boost Frenzied and DoS to kickstart her Crit percentage. Once she starts layering on the SP Drain gear, her cheap melee attacks will be self-powering, and allow her to balance out the high cost of PS 4. If she makes enough in return, then she goes up to PS 5 for the added targets.

***********

This SP mechanic is one I'm looking forward to abusing to my advantage: BR provides Vraes with an ever increasing layer of Base Damage, and exponential Crit percentages, so he will be more than making back his SP. Eventually he goes into Juggernaut, and makes up his SP lost by a few heavy hits from CB. Selen relies on her Crit% to make her SP back, and KJ gets all his attacks at 50-60% off. What more could you ask for?

Decided to pick this group back up... With all the great changes lately, it seemed right to get back on the trail with them. Up to level 11 so far and going strong.

I'm happy that I have KJ on the offense... I got into a rut of relying on the mages for support and debuffs, and the additional outgoing damage is welcome for sure. I'm running them through the zones before the Great Shaman, and though they're taking more damage due to Kyera running offense, the damage put out is great.

Vraes is currently spending 1 SP to use CB 2, and Kyera the same for Smiting 1, so though nobody's getting free attacks, their SP expenditure is very low, and they're going 3-4 fights before camping, which is cool for me because I normally don't mind running back every 2 fights so I feel like I'm moving much faster than usual.

I plan on pushing their SP returns even higher, so they will be making gains and have a self sustaining group. The only ones who will need refills will be Selen and KJ, but with SP drain cutting Firebolt's cost almost in half eventually, he can go and go. I'm happy that I haven't put another point into getting PS 5, so Selen isn't AS expensive, and I plan on giving her a few points into Frenzied to give her a cheap way to regain SP.

********

Anyone else building groups to abuse this mechanic as well? I'd love to hear them.

[En1gma]

Gloomwalkers update:

Vraes is finally making serious gains, now that he has Lukai's Spear, he's making his 4sp back, and getting 10+ on a crit. His damage is very consistent, and thanks to good base STR, makes the same amount of SP per attack. Thanks to Spears and their lovely narrow damage bands.

QsD Selen is getting tankier, but her damage is pretty low compared to everyone else in the group. AoE helps make up for it somewhat, but for now she's an AP/D/P curser. Which helps.

Kyera is pretty fun in a melee role, I gotta say. She makes back the cost of Smiting, so combat is cheaper than her buffs, which is really helping. She took a point in Purifying to help with curses, and is back on WS to 10. Once she has that, she gets another in Smiting, then Sac to start spreading her SP wealth around.

KJ got a Respec. Level 13 is early for sure, but those 2 points in BB weren't helping now that Vraes is getting good crit %. Put those into FB 6 and he's dealing 90+ to Ash 4 affected Krete. Next point goes to Ash 5, then I'm thinking about starting (deep breath...) Immolation. The added Crit vulnerability will go a long way to SP returns and will pair perfectly with Berserk Rage and Dance of Shadows.

I'll do up a proper write-up in a day or two, once they get a few more levels under their belt.