Lots of Questions About Stats and What The Heck Do They DO?

[fortescue]

I notice there are a number of achievements related to doing commissions, fighting ships, and defeating monsters. So if I wanted to make a good fighting Captain I would get... What? I have no idea how to build a character outside of Haggling gets prices, Fencing lets you capture people alive (for commissions), and Gathering lets you get Spices / Journals on Islands. I can speculate on what other stats do, but we don't really have much concrete information.



Skills



Sailing (Dex)
"Used for all types of movement upon the ocean using a ship" is not actually telling me any actionable information. How does it make you better? Why would you want this vs. Navigating? Does it help in combat? How is it useful in combat? Is it only useful outside of combat? How is it useful outside of combat?

Navigating (Dex)
"Plotting courses" what does this mean? I assume "avoiding other ships" means it is explicitly tied to the "avoid" command, so good for Merchants and Smugglers, right?

Intimidating (Charm)
"Used when making deals in taverns" how? What does this mean? Does it mean you demand higher commission fees? "Facing down enemies" means what? What exactly does this do with regard to hostiles, and when? The only thing this seems to explicitly do is reduce the chances of mutiny, and is therefore good when taking on conscripts?

Commanding (Int)
I assume "command gun crews" means your shots are more accurate, since none of the other stats seem involved with cannons. What does "lead in hand to hand combat" mean? How is this different from skill in Fencing? I assume since Expeditions aren't part of the game yet, that part is non-functional.

Gathering (Int)
I know fishing in the ocean isn't part of the game yet. So then this only is for gathering operations? Is there a point in specializing in gathering? Is that a professional option, gathering from islands to sell spices instead of doing commissions / piracy / merchant?

Haggling (charm)
Buy for less, sell for more, get more out of commissions. Does it do anything else? How about some kind of chart that shows what the impact of putting points into this is? Do we gain 1% higher selling and 1% cheaper buying per point? Or 0.5%? Is there a curve with diminishing returns? How do I know I have enough Haggling as a Merchant and can safely move into other stats? Same question with regard to all of these stats really. How do you ever know if you have enough or what their effect is? I don't feel like I'm building a character, I feel like I'm throwing darts at a dart board since I have no context regarding what going from 14 Haggling to 15 Haggling will do in real game terms, or taking Sailing from 1 to 9 for that matter.

Fencing (Str)
For fighting monsters and taking over ships in good condition so you can keep / sell them / win capture alive commissions, I assume. Any other uses? Does it reduce the chances of your Captain being injured while gathering on islands?

Primary Stats
Do this actually do anything on their own, or are they just limiters for the above skills? Would you ever want to invest in these when you still had room for improvement in your main skills? Why?

Charm
Why is this critical for keeping crews happy? Because it lets you level up Intimidate? When does Intimidation matter? As long as I have rations my crews stay happy, is it only useful for sailing after your rations are empty?

Intelligence
Says it is important for spotting ships. I don't seem to ever have trouble running into dozens of ships travelling from one side of a map to the other. What does "spotting ships" mean in this context?

Dexterity
"Required for cannon operations" really? Why? Command is the only skill that talks about cannons, and that is Int. Does this mean Dexterity + Command influence your accuracy with cannons? Or does it mean Dexterity is good for short range cannons and Command is for long range? The moving and rigging a ship part I assume just means letting you upgrade Sailing and Navigation.

Strength
Does this do anything independent of Fencing skill or just let you raise Fencing skill? Seems like the weakest investment of the primary stats since Fencing is such a specific circumstance that only a few types of players will actually use (though it will be their key stat I guess).

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I really want to play this game more but I can't enjoy it when I don't have any idea what the impact of my decisions when leveling my Captain is. If you need to add a new screen to the Main Menu on the navigation screen (the ... menu) to give hard numbers on the behind-the-scenes impact is of all these, that would be wonderful. Or, if you could just answer all the questions I asked in this post and put the detailed stat explanations in your game manual, that would also be incredibly useful for new players (and probably some old ones).

As it is I will probably just go play Star Trader or some other game with more documentation and better guides explaining how to succeed at the various classes you can play as. If someone could post a guide on how to be a good Smuggler, Pirate, Swashbuckler, or Knight I would really appreciate that.

[En1gma]

Fortescue- good questions and I have had many of those myself. From what I have gathered from the brothers Trese is that much of this information is intentionally hidden to reduce the amount of reading that we as players are subjected to. Personally I would prefer more of this information to be displayed, but ultimately it's their decision. I wouldn't give up on the game- I have spent many good days playing this one and while I would certainly enjoy reading what makes the game tick, I understand the need to simplify things so everyone can pick up the game and play.

[En1gma]

Basically it boils down to reading the class descriptions and remembering what attributes they are focused around. The attributes that are highlighted are the most important for that particular class. It also comes down to role-playing-

Pirates should focus on being a pirate- hijacking ships, stealing goods, pirate things.

Knights are very powerful military presences. They constantly rise the ranks in their faction, taking the more warlike commissions, focusing on ships with high cannon and crew counts to make combat easier.

Smugglers are the transportation experts and should focus on very fast ships with high sail counts to elude those who chase them down for the risky cargo they carry. Smugglers typically focus on commissions that carry important people or things, while making sure to keep their distance from enemy factions.

Merchants need ships with the largest cargo holds and need to learn trade routes. Keeping a neutral reputation with other nations is critical.

Basic ranks of each attribute are necessary and none are more important (imo) than those that help you with sailing operations. Also from what I gathered from the TB is that if you think a class would have a skill or an attribute, they most likely have something like you had in mind, so just play them the way you think they should be played and you should be ok =)

[hlo]

High Fencing and a large crew are keys if you want to win against Ice Demons and Krakens. I currently has 45 in fencing and a crew of 68. I start as Swashbuckler these days so I have high Fencing and Commanding to start. Starting ship: Shadowsail Cutter.

High Sailing will save you rations I think. Get a ship with GREAT running and GOOD tacking will save more on rations even in upwind situation.

I am on my 4th ship now, a Darksail Cutter. All my ships are taken from defeated enemies. Sometime because I like them but early on I take the one with least damages after the encounter.

Forget about politics, make friend with the 3 nations. That way you can go to most sectors and can dock for rations. Try to stay friendly as long as possible with the buccaneers since they have the majority of towns in the odd corners of the map.
 
Get Galda Fenn as soon as possible and she will help you greatly in the boarding actions. Since she is up in WhiteCliff (5,1) in one of town on the 2 tiny islands, consider starting as Kaihmer or Cadari to put you closer to that area. If you want to start as Ruesland, consider getting Nathaniel Sveet that is up in West Acadas (1,1). I am not sure whether Nathaniel will join you as low levels or not and how effective he is compare to Galda. I have both of them as my 2nd and 3rd mates.


Here is what I have been playing lately for the last 2 weeks.
Part 1
Part 2

[fortescue]

May 6, 2014 17:40:16 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Fortescue- good questions and I have had many of those myself. From what I have gathered from the brothers Trese is that much of this information is intentionally hidden to reduce the amount of reading that we as players are subjected to. Personally I would prefer more of this information to be displayed, but ultimately it's their decision. I wouldn't give up on the game- I have spent many good days playing this one and while I would certainly enjoy reading what makes the game tick, I understand the need to simplify things so everyone can pick up the game and play.

Hiding information from players which they need in order to make meaningful decisions is not good design. It should be accessible in a game document or a link to a wiki if people want to go look it up. I don't have time to perform 50 experiments in order to determine what stats actually do.

[fortescue]

May 6, 2014 20:52:54 GMT -5 hlo said:

High Sailing will save you rations I think.

Can anyone confirm this? I THINK I noticed less sail damage when on the water. Seems like this skill primary prevents negative events and crew losses from happening when you're just sailing around from place to place. I did not notice the impact on my rations, but I wasn't looking very closely.

I read your other posts. From what you're saying it sure makes it seem like buying cannon shot is useless in this game. If you're going to fight, get Fencing and board everyone. You mentioned conscripting crews, do you also have Intimidation and if so, how high did you raise it?

What are your total skills and stats as you are killing all these krakens, etc... at this point?

Do you notice what effect Command has when starting as a Swashbuckler vs. starting as a Knight and getting Intimidate first?

From what I can tell, favoring Fencing seems like the best strategy in general. Any time someone would stop you from completing a commission, or a big fight would happen randomly, or you're actively hunting down kraken for rep, it seems like having Fencing is the best solution. You don't spend on cannons, your ship takes minimal damage, theirs takes minimal damage (so you can steal it or burn it for max profit).

What is the advantage to duking it out with long guns? What stats would you even use to do that?

[fortescue]

After reading up on Star Traders I'm willing to make some guesses:

Navigation = Piloting
Sails = Engines

With high Navigation and Sails you should be able to set the range of combat to whatever you want with little resistance from an enemy assuming your Navigation is higher than theirs and number of Sails is roughly equal. The tooltip already said this is good for Avoiding but I think it may also influence your ability to escape, along with the # of sails you have. I would have to test this to verify, though.

As far as Sailing = Stealth, not sure I'm ready to make that leap. Maybe? Maybe it makes you better at avoiding getting shot at long range (like torps in Star Traders). Since there are no Surveillance missions in AoP I'm not sure what the deal is here. Maybe it has a small or a large influence on every action at sea? Really could use some explanation on this stat from Cory Trese.

Expanding on this it seems very likely that:
Intelligence = Wisdom
Gathering = Explorer
Commanding = Tactics in that it has a heavy influence on your gun accuracy. It seems to do more in AoP.

Strength probably reduces your chance of personal injury while Fencing is like Warrior, increasing your chances of beating people up.

[Officer Genious]

INTIMIDATE should keep enemy captains who board you from stabbing you after taking whatever isn't nailed to the ground, and INTELLIGENCE for ship-spotting refers to patrolling in waters.

I'll make my FIRST military ship and get back to you on guns and cannons.

[hlo]

Gun duelling is similar to that of Star Traders once you get to higher levels. If both ships are high level, most shots will miss. Problem in AoP is you can run out of gun powder. So close by boarding is the easiest way to win.

Intimidation is not that important IMO. I have few mutiny early on because I ran out of rations getting up to Whitecliff, I just fight it out with my high fencing skill. Once fighting done the morale is back up to 5 regardless of ration amount.

Other than Ice Demons and Krakens which I want to fight anyway, I can slip away from any encounter with ease. I have defeated all Ice Demons and Krakens encounter by boarding only. I lost count as to how many of each I managed to beat but you get the idea from my other thread. I don't seek them out in the current game because they are usually too far away usually. I stumble upon them now and then.

In the early part of the game when you need to get to remote locations (ie. Whitecliff for Galda Fenn), piracy is your only viable option to get rations after whatever stock runs out. Again, try your best to avoid fighting the 3 nations. Just avoid the rest. Use the commission map to determine whether the location of the commission is right for you. Decline whatever not fitting.

Here are my stats as of now:
Level 35 Swashbuckler on Demanding difficulty. Played 15 years + 196 days + 4 hrs. Treasure horde: 24433 silver and 82 copper.
Attribute: Charm - 15, Intelligence - 25, Dexterity - 25, Strength - 45.
Ability ratings: Sailing - 23, Navigating - 23, Intimidating - 15, Commanding - 25, Gathering -3, Haggle - 15, Fencing - 45.

Ship: modified Darksail Cutter. Running GREAT. Tacking GOOD.
Hull - 29, Mast - 41, Sail - 40, Crew - 68, Cargo - 44, Cannons - 12m, Long gun - 9.

Officers: First Mate - (stock) Kezar Baltos. 2nd officer - Galda Fenn-Tenath. 3rd officer - Nathaniel Sveet.

Upgrades:
Hull Upgrade: Hollow Mast (+6 mast, +2 keel).
Combat Upgrade: Muskets.
Crew Upgrade: Additional Quarters (+20). [ there is a better one but I don't have veteran soldier unlock.]
Sail Upgrade: Improved Masts (+5 mast, +2 sail)

Cargo manifest: Shot & Poweder - 20 (usually keep it like that), Luxury - 10 (backup food, may have more at times), Rations for the rest, usually sits over 138 coming out of a port.


World reputations: Cadari - 581. Kaihmer - 527. Ruesland - 505. The companies are all in minus 500s getting worse. Pirates are below minus 10s.

[Officer Genious]

It turns out that there isn't a military specialty for ranged combat. Mind boggling.

[fortescue]

So it sounds like based on what hlo is saying is, this game currently entirely favors Fencing, and ranged combat doesn't really have a point. The optimal strategy is to get in good with the nations / land owners, and tell the trade companies to f themselves. Or if you can get strong enough to fight Kraken without pissing anyone off you'll get massive positive rep with all factions. This tells me that leveling up Sailing and Navigation are probably good investments to prevent damage to your ship and close on enemies for boarding. Just favor Fencing as hlo has done and you can stroll around like you just don't care.

[hlo]

May 7, 2014 9:21:42 GMT -5 fortescue said:

So it sounds like based on what hlo is saying is, this game currently entirely favors Fencing, and ranged combat doesn't really have a point. The optimal strategy is to get in good with the nations / land owners, and tell the trade companies to f themselves. Or if you can get strong enough to fight Kraken without pissing anyone off you'll get massive positive rep with all factions. This tells me that leveling up Sailing and Navigation are probably good investments to prevent damage to your ship and close on enemies for boarding. Just favor Fencing as hlo has done and you can stroll around like you just don't care.

Kraken / Ice Demon encounters seem to boost good reputation with powers that are friendly to you (positive reputations) to start with. It never gave me boost to the companies and pirates even thought the encounters occurred in sectors with their presence.

Even in Star Traders, I think others have mentioned that Boarding action is the way to go when you are up against tough opponents especially aliens. Nothing new here really. I think nobody can avoid hostile encounters regardless of game style.

You do have to care. In AoP you can run out of rations in upwind climbs. Taking the long way like others suggest means you consume less each square you travel but it takes more time to get there at the end and I am not sure how much savings you will get. In ST you have no wind to worry about and red zones aren't as threatening even in high difficulty like Hard because you can have the engineering officer to repair solar sails as you fly. 

Just before you become the ultimate pirate... In AoP if you piss off enough people, you will never get supplies and dock services from any port eventually. The outcome will be certain death. In ST the Independents will always give you those essential services even if you piss off the other 6 major powers. Different strategy 

[Cory Trese]

May 7, 2014 9:21:42 GMT -5 fortescue said:

So it sounds like based on what hlo is saying is, this game currently entirely favors Fencing, and ranged combat doesn't really have a point. The optimal strategy is to get in good with the nations / land owners, and tell the trade companies to f themselves. Or if you can get strong enough to fight Kraken without pissing anyone off you'll get massive positive rep with all factions. This tells me that leveling up Sailing and Navigation are probably good investments to prevent damage to your ship and close on enemies for boarding. Just favor Fencing as hlo has done and you can stroll around like you just don't care.

So you've got one newish player's opinion. This is a good thread and a nice debate.

HLO's description is not at all how I play, but there are many different ways to be successful in AoP.

[Brutus Aurelius]

If you have silver to burn, be a gun bunny!

[En1gma]

As any class that wants to keep enemies from advancing/retreating I love the long guns- I often have more success/luck connecting with them then I do anytime I try and broadside anything and it is a great way to slow down pirates and enemy faction ships when on commission or have a hold full of gold and shot. Any investment I've ever made in them has always paid off and just bc there isn't an attribute that directly affects them (?) doesn't mean they should be overlooked.