|
|
Post by shapcano on May 16, 2014 16:07:25 GMT -5
For me, there are already a dozen styles of play. I'm hoping this will prove the case for me as I play more. So far, whatever style I try to pursue early game culminates with endless waves of Xeno ships. More than I could support if I mortgaged my Empire. We'll see how my current strategy (I built lvl 2 FDF on every border world) plays out. |
|
|
|
Post by John Robinson on May 16, 2014 16:38:07 GMT -5
I strongly disagree with thinking ST 4x is a rinse and repeat game.
At this stage I really don't see ST 4x. as playing the same game over and over.
MOO I and II were. I played them a long time found a solution that guaranteed a win every time no matter what the starting
groups were. It was still fun but was playing the same game over and over.
In my opinion that isn't happening in the ST 4x Alpha. Trying to measure the game at this stage is like thinking
you have seen Carlsbad Caverns with a flashlight. We haven't even seen what is in store for Phase 3. The tech tree
is still under construction, how much do we really know about the political, economic side? I have no doubt there
are features that Cory and Andrew haven't revealed yet.
If we examine the track record, the "finished" game will have way more than a few enhancements, and releases.
This is already subtle, deep and complex, not another game like Risk.
After finishing the HoS alpha I was astonished by the finished product, which continues to reinvent itself.
When ST 4x is finished if anybody can write an accurate detailed game manual and then say it's the same game
over and over. I'll give some serious credibility to the argument.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 19:08:32 GMT -5
All we have to go on is what we see in the here and now. If we could review items that have been listed for the next phase but aren't included in the game yet, then there's not much purpose in having a test team. I'm not the most articulated. Person in the world trying to explain my game experiences. But I don't pull punches either. Artists (and I include game making here) NEED honest feedback to be able to learn and develop.
The finished product IS going to be great, we just need to give honest opinions on what we like and don't like at the time, and let the finished product speak for itself.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Robinson on May 16, 2014 21:54:18 GMT -5
dayanI'd be an idiot to disagree with the above post. You made a good post, with solid logic and well spoken. The latest version v1.0.9 has just been announced and we can see how quickly ST 4x is evolving. I had doubts during the HoS alpha then every time they provided a good solution. If someone hadn't noticed the Xenos were colonizing 20 quality planets, it might have gone unnoticed longer, If we just keep getting overrun then yes this would be a very boring game with a predictable ending. That's what I'm getting at. I've seen some very good artwork of yours, and appreciate it from what I've learned from a close friend who is also an Artist. The eye for detail, subtle shading, use of color, each line requiring concentration. With great skill comes great expectations. I'm looking for your scalpel like precision in what you share. So when it seems like playing the same game over and over what specifically could change that? Heck, even my own response was too general. You've got solid Karma points, kicked in a few myself, you earned them. You have some clout and leadership on the forum. If I could right now I would clink a couple of mugs of beer with you, laugh and say; "If you're the best it's your fault not mine".  I'm biased about Trese Brothers games, and think the Alpha is the time to show tough love, really grind on it with detailed information, questions, demands for change, and solid positive input about what you like. What part do you really enjoy? Sometimes getting through the bugs creates frustration. I thought the initial release was like banging my head against a wall. But as usual they are proving me wrong. Thinking to myself; (Oh man I hope he knows I'm being friendly not condescending) The Devil is in the details.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on May 16, 2014 23:32:49 GMT -5
"The Devil is in the details."
So true.
|
|
|
|
Post by contributor on May 17, 2014 14:56:01 GMT -5
That's really interesting. What gives you the impression that each game will be the same? Do you play the same map each time? Have you only pulled the same set of starting Xeno AI? Do you think selecting each Faction will help? Very different game than MOII but they have the same multiple ways to win math at the core. Will you win by coordinating your factions perfectly, upgrading the planets to a perfect mix, designing the best ships, outsmarting the xeno or simply dominate them technologically? The impression comes from a few things and impressions are important to think about, because some people (and reviewers!) won't play past their first impressions. 1) You're always starting with the same basic factions. I don't know what the final implementation is going to be, but if you can mix and match between factions that will eliminate some of this feeling. As a side note here, the more different the factions are the better. It would be worth thinking through more than the starting +1 CP,RP etc. bonuses. What about special ships that can only be built by that faction or special buildings down the tech tree? 2) It seems like even if you add 2 or 3 or 5 xeno enemies they are really more or less the same in the fact that they are always hostile to you. There is seemingly no way to negotiate a peace, or truce with them, there is no way to play them off of each other etc. Lack of diplomatic actions with the Xeno give the impression that even if AI is different the relationship is pretty flat. 3) Right now maps are also seemingly homogenous. There may be different planet qualities and arrangements, but they are still just lots of dots on an open map. Things like large impassible spaces or even completely empty spaces on large maps could add unique variety to the maps other than different sizes. Those are a few thoughts. |
|
|
|
Post by shapcano on May 17, 2014 15:38:05 GMT -5
I agree with both one and two. Not at all sure what would fix #2.
|
|
|
|
Post by slayernz on May 17, 2014 19:20:54 GMT -5
You are going to be able to play as both Syndicates or Houses. I think you will start with the same number of ships (3x Colony, 2x Defender, 1x Explorer (although maybe it will be a different combo for the houses). I agree that there should be some factional benefits ... it's harder when you're only playing "syndicates" or "houses". That's why I still (and foolishly) want a single faction to control and guide. I still don't believe that during the great exodus, the houses and/or factions really worked that closely together. The way 4x is panning out, you're guiding the syndicates (or houses) to a common destiny where you want each to succeed equally. Ironically, even if a planet goes independent, you STILL have full control of their asset development. I'd be more happy with you controlling one faction, and having the 2 other factions played as AI. YOU have the option to try and work with these other factions, and if Xenos attack, you have the option to go and help your allies out - or let them die so you can protect your own borders. THAT for me is the way I see the syndicates or houses working together. If you play Cadar, you have NO say as to what Rychart or De Valtos actually do. They can develop different tech paths (depending on the AI allocated to them for the game play). They might be willing to share technology, resources or assets (during an alliance), or if you are at war with them, they can try and cut off your trade routes. The point is - Xenos are almost 100% going to be out to kill you when you encounter them. other factions will be neutral to you and depending on your actions, will become friendly or hostile. THERE you have reputation points, and there will be consequences to spying or attacking their ships/planets. You won't be able to influence what they build, but may be able to have a "merchant" type of ship that allows you to carry "CP" from one planet to another. Oh I'm getting excited about this vision - but it isn't the vision of Cory and Andrew so we're back to the two almost homogenous options, relying on starting positions, anomalies and lucky planet quality rolls in order to vary the differences. Cory Trese and fallen, I apologize for continuing to believe 4x should be controlling single faction. I know you've explained your vision and for you it works how you want it to work. I just believe that if you are controlling 3 factions, you'll still end up treating all three factions as one block of resources for you to develop your overarching strategy for success. The Syndicates do work closely, but not that closely. The houses certainly would not like to have one sovereign leader guiding all three of them to a single destiny. So the question is ... what sounds better: 1) You control three factions, and your big and tangible threat is the Xenos breathing down your neck. You work with all three factions to get beyond plain survival in the harsh reality of post-exodus era. Yes, there are interfactional differences, but with your guidance, there is a semblance of cooperation against the ultimate Xeno threat. The factions under your control have some differences (eg Cadar generate bonus CP, and De Valtos breed like rabbits), but ships from all three factions unite in their objective of protecting green space against the common threat. It's YOU vs the Xenos. 2) You control one of six factions in the great exodus, each with their own agenda and beliefs. Can you work with them to survive and ultimately flourish, or are they a direct threat to your way of life and a constant burr in your side. Can you put aside your differences when the true danger of the Xenos becomes apparent and more importantly, can you survive on your own against this threat rather than work with any of the other factions? Each faction has their own strengths and weaknesses (bought about by their ideology or backgrounds), and it is those differences that make every game varied and challenging. It's YOU, up to five other factions, and the Xenos. |
|
|
|
Post by nails on May 17, 2014 19:39:07 GMT -5
Well, it might be interesting to play all three and have a personal bias toward one.
I already lean cadar because they can beat the xeno, but n I need devaltos to make the money.
I think you need to play all three ultimately. Because they all feed off each other.
|
|
|
|
Post by nails on May 17, 2014 19:39:43 GMT -5
And karma is so over rated
says the guy who has none
|
|
|
|
Post by shapcano on May 17, 2014 19:44:27 GMT -5
2) You control one of six factions in the great exodus, each with their own agenda and beliefs. Can you work with them to survive and ultimately flourish, or are they a direct threat to your way of life and a constant burr in your side. Can you put aside your differences when the true danger of the Xenos becomes apparent and more importantly, can you survive on your own against this threat rather than work with any of the other factions? Each faction has their own strengths and weaknesses (bought about by their ideology or backgrounds), and it is those differences that make every game varied and challenging. It's YOU, up to five other factions, and the Xenos. Wouldn't that slow down the game like, a lot? |
|
|
|
Post by slayernz on May 17, 2014 19:52:57 GMT -5
Maybe you don't get all 6 factions - maybe 2 or 3 factions established homeworlds in your local region.
|
|
|
|
Post by nails on May 17, 2014 20:24:48 GMT -5
Maybe you don't get all 6 factions - maybe 2 or 3 factions established homeworlds in your local region. That would be an interesting option to play. |
|
|
|
Post by kyleobrien on May 17, 2014 22:16:08 GMT -5
I agree with both sides to a point. I love playing with 3 fractions, but I don't see any consequences when they fight. I feel like that if we are gonna control all three that there needs to be a point where they split. My idea is that in the beginning they all work together to survive, but since this is a prequel to Star Traders then eventually they have to split. Maybe in the politics tech tree at the end and be independce. This would split the fractions and force them to survive on there own. This also is a way to make the end game better. Right now I just wiped the Xeno out. Completely. Now what? Spliting the fractions at the end game might help this out?
|
|
