Combat tweaks

[HateSolstice]

I've decided to take a page out of my good friend Tenebrous' book and make a topic about combat. There is a delicate balancing act that lies within, and someone's gotta talk about it.

First off, I want to mention that it is currently WAY to hard to hit your target, even with just a fist to the face. I have a gun in one hand and a knuckler in the other, and I'm supposed to be some bad ass contract killer. So why can't I hit the broadside of the New Boston dome? Out of 10 shots fired at a lowly Los Val enforcer, only 2 or 3 will hit. I'm pretty sure that a Cyber Knight isn't some gang-banger holding his sideways to look hip, so these misses make no sense. Even after a couple points put into firearms, or a couple implants to improve combat skills, I see no difference in accuracy. Same goes for brawling. I want to hit the guy in the face, not waltz or dance the macarena.

To tie in with this, my next comment is about the effects of skills and implants. I know in the next few updates(hopefully) you guys intend to implement the ability to upgrade our implants. I'm pretty excited about that. But, just like with the skills, I'd like clarification on exactly what the implants and combat abilities affect. Obviously more points should be better, but considering I'm an old pen-and-paper RPG player, I like numbers. Knowing what numbers are actually being affected by what other numbers would help in keeping pace I would think. But really, I'd mostly like to see the skills and implants be a bit more effective.

And lastly, just because I'm a royal pain in the ass, experience points are currently a bit too difficult to accumulate. When your stats are saying you need 9-12 to increase your abilities by 1 point, and you're still at the beginning of the game, that's rather discouraging. Not that I want this game to be a cakewalk, because the difficulty and learning curve of STRPG is what I loved about it. I do think, however, the character growth needs to be streamlined a bit more.

Also, is experience only obtained by random encounters and killing all of the opponents? If so, you might want to consider some sort of system that gives you x amount of XP after so many missions, or perhaps have the XP be part of the reward? For example, we could either have contracts that reward you with either cash, perhaps an item of some sort(medkits!), or couple of experience points depending on your progress.

[Tenebrous Pirate]

Hi. I will offer my input to your concerns. I have played probably WAY too much of the beta lately. First off, are you using the latest version?

Accuracy...

As far as hitting, I am not experiencing having any trouble hitting stuff, even on my hacker when he was brand new. The range you are at GREATLY affects your accuracy. If you are clever with your movement plans, you can reliably get to an ideal range on a regular basis.

Pay attention to how AP totals and expenditures work in combat. It takes my hacker 3 AP to move, and 3 AP to shoot his pistol.

Each "segment" of each "round" of combat, each character involved gets to either move, or shoot. You always get to go first.

Escape attempts cost 1 AP, but only work if you are far away from your enemies.

Aiming a gun or changing your position with a melee weapon also cost 1 AP. Using this option is a HUGE part of accurately hitting your enemies. If you just squeeze out 10 shots on a gun without taking the time to aim first, no wonder only 2-3 will hit.

Moving costs 3 AP, as I said before, and from what I can tell, you can move as many squares as your Athletics ability.

Attacking AP costs depend on the weapon. (Cory, thank you so much for the extra info display on all the items so we can see the accuracy rates and AP costs.) I have not tested enough weapons yet to understand exactly how the speed of a weapon works.

Each "segment" of combat, any character on the map with at least 3 AP left gets an action. So, if you have 9 AP, and you are fighting goons with only 3 AP, you can have up to 2 actions more than them.

For your first action, move 1 square outside of their maximum attack range (if you know it). They will then usually move closer to you, within 2-3 squares of you. 2 squares away from you is good range to shoot at. Point blank is awesome, don't get me wrong. Anyway, then they will be out of AP, but you will still have more. So, the next "segment" of the round starts. You have 6 AP left.

Depending on the number of enemies, you can do a couple things. If there is 1 enemy, you can aim (1 AP) and shoot (3AP). You will most likely hit. But, if you really want to hit, use this segment to move to point blank range. Then, you will still have 1 more segment to shoot with your last 3 AP, and if that misses, the next round of combat will start, and you will go first. Then, you will be able to aim and shoot, at point blank range.

There are other strategies I have as you fight multiple enemies, but I am sure you will be able to figure those out yourself.

Info...
All I can say is that we are still in the beta test. There is no guide yet, nor will there likely be till we get further towards a finished, working product. I am being as patient as I can be about bugging the guys for extra info. I know they have a ton of stuff they are working on, and they are great at answering what questions they can. Mostly, I try and reverse engineer the game as much as I can until they share stuffs.

EXP...
You get exp from winning combat, yes. But, you also get exp from stuff like successfully avoiding perils on the map, dodging patrols, etc. Your level of cyber enhancements affects your exp gain rate though. The higher your ImplantDV number, the slower you will gain exp.

Also, the exp expenditure system is a lot more dynamic than the STRPG one. There are some inverse relationship calculations going on. It rewards focus and specialization in certain ways. For example, if you get your Dexterity really high and leave your strength low, it will actually be cheaper to raise your Dex from 9 to 10 than to raise your Str from 2 to 3.

In CK, stat scores are tied to skills, but skills are not limited by your stats like in STRPG. The higher your base stat is, the cheaper it will be to increase the skills that are tied to it. So, if you get a high dex, buying firearms and stealth will be cheaper.

Ok, this was one hell of a post. Whew! I hope this helps!

[taatuu25]

Thanks very much,tenebrous that helped me alot!

[Tenebrous Pirate]

Addendum: Ok, I have gotten to test out weapons with increased speed. Basically, the weapons speed is the number of attacks you can have against 1 target for the AP spent.

So, the Uzi VII has a 5 AP cost and a 4 speed, that means when you attack a guy with it, you only spend 5 AP, but can shoot at him up to 4 times in a single combat segment.

Unfortunately, if you kill your target with the first, hit or otherwise have any shots remaining from that AP use, you do not get to try and hit any other targets. I also do not know if using the aim action before your first shot affects just that one shot, or all of them in that volley. Spray and pray, yo.

[HateSolstice]

The thing is, I use the Aim action every combat I get. And, I've done this at close range(1-2 squares away max) and still only get the odd hit every now and then. Doesn't matter if I'm playing a Cybersword or a Gunslinger. Granted, the enemies can't hit me worth a damn if I'm 3 or more squares away at all, but at close range they win almost every time. I've also experimented with and without implants, and have noticed no difference.

I was not aware implants cause you to gain XP slower. I had no idea what the DV stat was, but now I do. I also did not know you get experience for successfully avoiding bad things, or dodging the patrols.

Maybe I'm just horribly unlucky?

[Tenebrous Pirate]

What does your stat spread look like?

[fallen]

@hate - definitely post your stats. Maybe Java random number generator hates you, but as a player I also want to hit more. Maybe you just bought the wrong gun?

[Cory Trese]

I'm going to add all the numbers to the attack screen (range, accuracy, defense, etc)

I think then we can all talk fair and square about who's torps are destroy the most solar sails.

errr, or something

[HateSolstice]

XD

Actually, I started over again(not that I had much time put in). I'll post the stats of the guy shortly. This time around, I've tried to concentrate more on contracts than trying to riddle Los Val thugs with holes from my Ares pistol.

[Tenebrous Pirate]

Cory, do you feel like adding in a field in weapon descriptions that just displays a calculation?
It would be similar to DPS, but instead be DPAP...Damage Per Action Point.

DPAP=(Power*Speed)/AP

[HateSolstice]

So, I lied and can't decide what the hell I'm going to play around with now. And posting stats at the beginning isn't very handy.

I'm curious though, is there ever a time one wouldn't want to use the "take aim" action? It seems to me that wouldn't just hinder you regardless.

[Tenebrous Pirate]

I have times where I don't use it, yes. It all depends on your current/max AP totals, the AP cost to use your weapons, the AP totals your enemies still have, etc.

Say you only have 6 AP left and are using an ARES Raptor. Your gun costs 3 AP to use and does 6 damage. You are one square away from 2 goons who have enough AP left to shoot at you. If you aim and then shoot, you will be done for the round. But if you just shoot, you will likely hit and kill the first one, and have a pretty good chance of surviving the counter attack from the other goon, if he even hits you. Then, you can shoot him again.

Really, it just depends on the circumstances.

[HateSolstice]

How much of a modifier is aiming to your "to hit" rating? Provided anyone but Cory and Andrew know this. I know it has something to do with your gun's accuracy and your firearms skill. I'm not a math wizard by any stretch of the imagination(math problems scare me the way clowns scare children).

[Tenebrous Pirate]

It seems like a very significant modifier. Cory says he will post the exact numbers here soon, but from my experience I would say it is somewhere in the range of 20-30% of a modifier.

[HateSolstice]

As soon as my random FCs with combat are fixed, I'll give it a shot again.