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Post by narana on May 21, 2014 10:29:07 GMT -5
So, I'm at the end of Episode 1 Act 2, in the castle, playing on nightmare, and there are doors that need to be unlocked to proceed. Sometimes there are enemies behind those locked doors. Sometimes lots of mean enemies.
Since only my rogue can unlock the door, and when she unlocks the door the door opens and the enemies spawn, she's eating the full first turn of enemy attacks. If unlocking the door didn't open the door, then I could reposition my team to have the tank open the door. I would much rather it was this way, I will be pretty sad if I lose my deathless nightmare run because there was a door I needed to unlock.
Other solution would be to increase range of lock pick so the rogue could unlock the door while behind the tank, but I would rather the lock pick skill be consistent between unlocking chests and doors.
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Post by fallen on May 21, 2014 10:52:46 GMT -5
narana - we've had the request before, but because of the way the door system was implemented, we can't change this. Kjartan can snag a 3 Range Unlock Talent for a single Talent point.
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Post by Cory Trese on May 21, 2014 11:01:35 GMT -5
Increase Stealth, remember that you can open on a diagonal with Vraes standing in the door *and still win stealth.*
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Post by En1gma on May 21, 2014 11:17:56 GMT -5
Also I don't think picking locks by hand would work from a few spaces away, unless we make their arms freakishly long.
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Post by narana on May 21, 2014 13:02:41 GMT -5
Increase Stealth, remember that you can open on a diagonal with Vraes standing in the door *and still win stealth.* There are many doors that only have a single square they can be opened from. I had used the vision skill so I knew there would be enemies, so I buffed and equipped all my defensive gear on my rogue for those couple doors, and one time my rogue was taken to 7 hp, another to around 40. I will likely invest a lot in stealth soon, but I'm far behind in skill/talent stealth since I really needed my rogue to do damage, and only have +3 stealth from item, so no way I could win stealth checks for now. Also I don't think picking locks by hand would work from a few spaces away, unless we make their arms freakishly long. Gameplay before lore? It's maaagic! we've had the request before, but because of the way the door system was implemented, we can't change this. Kjartan can snag a 3 Range Unlock Talent for a single Talent point. Alright, got it, can't be done right now. These incidents made me want to put points in the mage ranged lock pick, but the issue is the mage has lower skill points that are really needed in conjuration/sorcery so no lore, so I'd need multiple talent points in his pick lock skill to open these doors, and I'll consider it for later, but it's too late for that now. I hope there aren't too many remaining required locked doors with a single adjacent square! |
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Post by fallen on May 21, 2014 13:07:41 GMT -5
narana - you'd find that the mage is capable of unlocking the doors without raising his skill.
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Post by John Robinson on May 21, 2014 13:26:15 GMT -5
Increase Stealth, remember that you can open on a diagonal with Vraes standing in the door *and still win stealth.* Hi well met. I agree with Cory Trese and fallen. Using Tamilin's Blacknight Talent, or Selen's Dance of Shadows can rapidly increase your stealth while conserving your skill points for other activities. There are set piece ambushes in the game, but time and again I have seen my party win the stealth roll and get the first move using these talents. In my current party Selen never increased her original stealth starting value of 3 but has Dance of Shadows(5) and one piece of +2 equipment for a total Stealth of 11. She also gets a +2 MP so she can step back if necessary. I would devote higher skill points to Tamlin's Stealth, and talent points to Blacknight. Because if Selen is properly equipped she can withstand allot more damage that could cripple or kill Tamlin at close range. As an alternative a single point in Kjartan's Warding Words will provide lockpick at a range of 3, making it a snap to throw it over Vraes from behind. |
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Post by En1gma on May 21, 2014 14:14:50 GMT -5
There can be no gameplay without lore  I understand where you are coming from, though, as I have died many times this way. Just makes me think differently about how to improve on a build for the next run through- my next KJ build will have that point into his unlock skill by the assault on Red Hill- those archer gates were brutal without it. |
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Post by narana on May 21, 2014 14:24:29 GMT -5
I just checked to make sure, and the mage pick lock is +2, and his starting lore is 2, and the gatehouse locked door in front of my party is level 5, so I'll need to spend talent+skill or 2 talents to open by mage.
I'll probably do it anyway since I'm trying to stay deathless and I can't see any other way with my current setup, so thanks for the suggestion.
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Post by fallen on May 21, 2014 14:28:26 GMT -5
narana - currently the lock picking skill rules are not being enforced in the game. You should be able to unlock the door with just Talent level 1.
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Post by contributor on May 21, 2014 15:39:55 GMT -5
A few more thoughts on reading this. I was the one who posted the original wish to change this. It seems to me like the only option is going to be going with some lock picking skill in my mage. Which makes me wonder what the long term plans are for enforcing the lock-picking skills. Maybe they should stay the way they are, or we're going to get stuck suddenly with a Mage who can't pick locks and a rogue without enough stealth skill. It's still sort of a bummer though to have to allocate a talent point to this. They are so precious on Nightmare. Props to narana for playing on Nightmare and trying to stay Deathless. How far have you gotten so far? This issue (if you're not using the mage to pick locks) practically forces you to make a stealth based rogue/thief, if you're playing on higher difficulty. On Nightmare, you have to put a lot of skill and talent point into things to keep winning every stealth roll. The fun of this game though is to try out some different builds, so things that force you into a particular build are not that cool. Yes picking locks on the angle and leaving Vraes in the door is great advice, but there are some levels that have tons of recessed doors where only one person can stand in front of them. This is especially huge in the Store Rooms side quest. Cory Trese, fallen, do you think you could remember this as you design a levels? A few of these types of doors create fun challenges, where you really have to think through what to do and pray for a decent dice roll. Overuse of these types of doors again forces you to build your team around this one challenge and limits the different builds you can use. |
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Post by narana on May 21, 2014 15:49:19 GMT -5
A few more thoughts on reading this. I was the one who posted the original wish to change this. It seems for me like the only option is going to be going with some lock pocking skill in my mage. Which makes me wonder what the long term plans are for enforcing the lock-picking skills. Maybe they should stay the way they are. It's still sort of a bummer though to have to allocate a talent point to this. They are so precious on Nightmare. Props to narana for playing on Nightmare and trying to stay Deathless. How far have you gotten so far? This issue (if you're not using the mage to pick locks) practically forces you to make a stealth based rogue/thief if you're playing on higher difficulty. You have to put a lot of skill and talent point into things to keep winning every roll. The fun of this game though is to try out some different builds so thing that force you in to a particular build are not that cool. Yes picking locks on the angle and leaving Vraes in the door is great advice, but there are some levels that have tons of recessed doors where only one person can stand in front of them. This is especially huge in the Store Rooms side quest. Cory Trese fallen, do you think you could remember this as you design a levels? A few of these types of doors create fun challenges, where you really have to think through what to do and pray for a decent dice roll. Over use of these types of doors again forces you to build your team around this one challenge and limits the different builds you can use. You say it in better words then me, thanks for your input. I rather wish it was mentioned in game that lock pick levels arent checked, I gave my archer 2 points in security thinking it was necessary but now that I know I wish I could move them elsewhere. As for the mage having to spend a talent to get ranged pick lock, it's fine with me as long as it's just 1 considering the rogue got the range 1 pick lock for free. Like you though I wonder how to stay deathless with the other mage if you fail your stealth check when unlocking a door. As for my game I'm still deathless at the gatehouse boss fight. The cutscene dumped my mage and archer in front of my tank and exposed to all the archers and the boss, so I had to put the game down, I don't have enough brains right now to solve that puzzle. At least I bought around 2500g worth of potions, so I should have a chance when I find my brains. |
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Post by contributor on May 21, 2014 16:11:59 GMT -5
narana, that battle is intense the first time through it and I think a lot of people die there. The good news is that if you've gotten your party there with no deaths, you have what it takes to get through that fight. For me the key has always been blocking that bridge with your off tank (you have one of those right?) and then cursing the Orcin (AP and accuracy if you can). Then focus everybody on the main group with Geraux and take enemies out fast, before all the archers arrive and start doing massive damage. If you get a bad roll with lots of archers it's tough though. I've never moved far from my starting position just kept Vraes toward Geraux, Selen, Kyera or Fyona on the bridge and the range/magic users in between and left of them supporting Vraes as much as possible and shifting to the bridge person if she's really in danger or Vraes situation is getting under control.
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Post by nolost on Jun 5, 2014 15:05:34 GMT -5
I haven't that much experience in the game nor in that combat and I only tried it at Hard. But I would suggest try a variation of what lurker suggests. That corner is great but instead of have to guard yourself the bridge you should try have an enemy archer guard it for you. It can vary because there's random startup positions but there's a good chance an archer will move on the bridge first or after an Orc.
To trigger it, I suggest move a bit the group to south and stay on the border of the screen. This should attract an enemy archer that will guard the bridge for you. Then you are free from duty of guarding this side and can kill other archers behind the archer helping you. With some luck you'll even delay the management of the Orc or will get him from afar. And you can slowly come back to this corner near the bridge because it's an excellent position.
This maneuvering has also the advantage to disorganize the archers at the other side of the bridge during first turns and you'll suffer less during the first two turns, more or less.
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Post by vintoks on Nov 24, 2014 22:17:36 GMT -5
I do not know where else to put this... Can the devs explain their thinking behind the chest/dor unlock talents? Is there enough gameplay situations to ever warrant pumping several points into the unlock talent tree? When would a character be useful with 10 skill in this? Maybe I am missing something but the talents seem like wasted space. If you only ever need one or possibly 2 in this skill why not implement in some other way and then use the area in the talent tree for something else? Skills from classes that didn't make the cut perhaps? It seems outside of a couple situations like reaching a far off chest or a couple scripted set piece doors it has no gameplay impact.
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I understand where you are coming from, though, as I have died many times this way. Just makes me think differently about how to improve on a build for the next run through- my next KJ build will have that point into his unlock skill by the assault on Red Hill- those archer gates were brutal without it.
