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Post by virtualrock on Jul 14, 2014 11:49:49 GMT -5
I think that the economy eventually gets bad even if you have everything stable one turn can ruin you so i think that i am going to try to rush the game now and see how that works.
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Post by pendell on Jul 14, 2014 12:09:08 GMT -5
Good luck!
That hasn't been my experience. I have quite a good economy because I've concentrated heavily on the planetary construction tree. I've also been constantly upgrading my exchanges and colonizing new planets to take the population pressure off the core worlds. I've been able to make it to 7.0 AE so far without having serious economic issues.
Of course, I'm playing on normal difficulty. You may be having more trouble on a higher difficulty or a different map.
Respectfully ,
Brian P.
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Post by pendell on Jul 14, 2014 18:48:26 GMT -5
OOh-kay. I just finished my game in year 8.33 AE. For a long time my income was running at +2.1K, but a few turns ago it SUDDENLY jumped to +4.1K. Now it's at 4.9K.
If I knew how to put in a screenshot, I would. Since I don't know how to do that, I did some figuring in a spreadsheet based on the empire summary screen.
Question: I have +4.9K per turn. How is this happening?
My Empire:
Worlds: 24
Political setup: 2 trade alliances, 1 spy war.
Population: 229
Income per pop unit: $14
Total income from population: 3206
Mining: 218
Income per mineral: $21
Total mineral income: $4578
Trade: 311 (I build lots of exchanges)
Income per trade unit: $15 (base) + 4 (trade alliance) = $19 ( I assume that every trade point is affected by the alliance, since all factions are in one).
Total income from trade: $5909
Total CP: 158
Busy CP: 38
Idle CP: 158-38 = 120
Value per CP: $10 (base) + $4 (trade alliance) = $14.
Total income from CP: $1680
Total revenue from all sources: $3206 + $4578 + $5909 + $1680 = 15373
Colony maintenance: 5717/7305
Maintenance rate: 87% (I keep morale high)
Total Colony Maintenance:7305 (I think).
# of ships: 39 (16 assault transports, 7 carriers, 5 cruisers, 1 explorer, and a bunch of fighters).
Total Ship Maintenance: 3173/2908, so I think that means my ship maintenance is 3173.
Total Ship Maintenance: 3173.
Total costs: 7305+3173 = $10478.
Net Income: 15373 - 10478 = $4895.
The summary screen says $4920, so I must be pretty close. If anyone knows what I did wrong, please let me know. The spy wars should have decreased the income generated by two of the factions, and I haven't calculated that in ...
Anyways, I think the analysis is "close enough" to draw some general conclusions. I should add that for almost the entire time 1/2 my fleet was in red space.
* The biggest source of income is trade. The second biggest source is mining.
* Politics is a powerful force multiplier which impacts both trade and construction points. I have two trade alliances going. If I had two solar wars, my trade per tp for each faction would be $0. Instead of being $4.9K in the green, I'd instantly drop to losing money every turn!
* Mining is the most dependable source of income since it is unaffected by politics. In peacetime , this income will be just barely enough to pay the maintenance costs for the Empire. In wartime, the need to maintain a large fleet will push you down to $1000 per turn if you have no trade to redress the balance.
* Consequently, if you see your money flow radically change, this is probably an indication that a faction conflict has heavily impacted your trade and idle CP income.
What to do about this?
* Build a solid foundation for the economy using mining, and then on top of that get as many trade points as you can.
* Research the politics and diplomacies trees. Quash any trade wars , trade embargoes, or solar wars as soon as you can. Foster trade routes and trade alliances between all factions.
* When you have good politics, run up as big a nest egg as you can. This will give you room to recover if a solar war suddenly pulls the rug out from under your economy. The game is going to be nearly impossible once your income and bank balance go deep into the red, as you have no money to influence the faction conflicts -- you must hope that they end on their own. This is usually a forlorn hope -- while factions can do their own diplomacy, it seems that left unshepherded they tend towards strife and conflict.
That's the way I read it. If anyone sees any problems with the math, I'm listening.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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Post by fallen on Jul 14, 2014 21:29:01 GMT -5
Anyways, I think the analysis is "close enough" to draw some general conclusions. I should add that for almost the entire time 1/2 my fleet was in red space. * The biggest source of income is trade. The second biggest source is mining. * Politics is a powerful force multiplier which impacts both trade and construction points. I have two trade alliances going. If I had two solar wars, my trade per tp for each faction would be $0. Instead of being $4.9K in the green, I'd instantly drop to losing money every turn! * Mining is the most dependable source of income since it is unaffected by politics. In peacetime , this income will be just barely enough to pay the maintenance costs for the Empire. In wartime, the need to maintain a large fleet will push you down to $1000 per turn if you have no trade to redress the balance. * Consequently, if you see your money flow radically change, this is probably an indication that a faction conflict has heavily impacted your trade and idle CP income. What to do about this? * Build a solid foundation for the economy using mining, and then on top of that get as many trade points as you can. * Research the politics and diplomacies trees. Quash any trade wars , trade embargoes, or solar wars as soon as you can. Foster trade routes and trade alliances between all factions. * When you have good politics, run up as big a nest egg as you can. This will give you room to recover if a solar war suddenly pulls the rug out from under your economy. The game is going to be nearly impossible once your income and bank balance go deep into the red, as you have no money to influence the faction conflicts -- you must hope that they end on their own. This is usually a forlorn hope -- while factions can do their own diplomacy, it seems that left unshepherded they tend towards strife and conflict. Amazing analysis and you are dead on. My style dictates that mining is the backbone of my empire, with trade as the high profit cake. I hope others who are struggling will read this! |
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Post by Officer Genious on Jul 14, 2014 22:38:47 GMT -5
I have a strong focus in mining this time around and still ran into trouble thanks to a trade war and some fighter repair costs (no fatalities, still don't know why my economy suddenly tanked towards the end of a very long trade war). I had to wreck all my factories to drop maintenance costs and I'm working to improving my hab units and factories so I can have some quality space back on some planets for MOAR MINEZZZ!
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Post by virtualrock on Jul 15, 2014 4:36:48 GMT -5
It's kind of weird how the factions think it's like "Hey we just got to a new place and are rebuilding, I wonder what we can do to help?"
"Oh I know Steve let's have a solar war!"
"Great idea Mark"
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TeeWee
Hero
[ Star Traders 2 & Heroes Supporter ]
Posts: 247
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Post by TeeWee on Jul 15, 2014 7:34:21 GMT -5
I'm actually in the first save in ST4X that my economy hasn't tanked. It is aptly named "More mines" to remind me every time I load it up, that investing in mines is a Good Thing(tm).
I'm using the tutorial map on normal difficulty without Elite (so no Elite-techs). I've eliminated Xeno as an actual threat and have started to purge them from the planets. They are now on the defensive and I'm predicting a comfortable mop-up action that, barring some catastrophic mistakes, should lead into sector that is free of Xeno infestations.
On to the economy. While I'm still playing with the balance of things and I'm definately not seeing 1000+ incomes per turn that others have reported, I haven't slipped into negative yet except for an occasional dip that lasts for about a turn or two at most. There's a much stronger sense of stability, though it's still hard to see why these dips occur (now mostly from 500 to 0 income, with income usually sitting around the 200-mark) and therefore, what I can do about it.
I do see now that mines make a big difference in getting a dependable midgame income. I'm also more careful about how many colonies I make to prevent overextending my economy over too many different needs. 300 income is great when I have only the three Prime-colonies to feed, but is not so hot when I'm trying to keep 12 colonies productive.
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Post by virtualrock on Jul 15, 2014 7:45:50 GMT -5
Well I currently got a game with 6000 profit per turn and 23 grand in the treasury so I guess I got nothing to worry about so far...
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Post by jayte on Jul 15, 2014 8:53:38 GMT -5
Started a game last night. Crazy difficulty. Scouted out a nice far base of planets and decided I'd like to settle there. Apparently, the xeno had the same idea and both Xeno and I ran an early expansion strategy. They then started attacking me, but I had the default ships ready to defend.
The waves never ended, and even though I fielded a few upgraded fighters, my economy crashed, and unless I get a xeno retreat followed by an economic recovery, it's GG
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Post by fallen on Jul 15, 2014 9:06:02 GMT -5
The ST RPG mantra is "Start on a difficulty where you can win. Train. When you are ready, increase the difficulty."
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Post by virtualrock on Jul 15, 2014 9:10:24 GMT -5
The ST RPG mantra is "Start on a difficulty where you can win. Train. When you are ready, increase the difficulty." You know when i first started playing ST and AoP i started on the hardest difficulty and skipped the tutorials. Its sort of a new challenge i gave myself. Oh and dont get me started on the number of times i almost got destroyed by lvl 1 enemies and water fuel/ ration shortage |
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Post by jayte on Jul 15, 2014 10:32:31 GMT -5
The ST RPG mantra is "Start on a difficulty where you can win. Train. When you are ready, increase the difficulty." Not a complaint! Just need to see how greedy I can be at the start! Rapid expansion seems to really gut the economy, and rapid expansion along the enemy border just permits them to spread their attacks and hit you where you're weak. I will get this! |
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Post by phantombudgie on Jul 15, 2014 13:01:16 GMT -5
The ST RPG mantra is "Start on a difficulty where you can win. Train. When you are ready, increase the difficulty." This should be the auto-reply to at least half of the people complaining  Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards |
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Post by virtualrock on Jul 15, 2014 15:06:14 GMT -5
The ST RPG mantra is "Start on a difficulty where you can win. Train. When you are ready, increase the difficulty." This should be the auto-reply to at least half of the people complaining Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards Yea it should if there are people complaining. I wasnt complaning when i said that the economics are hard,I think it makes the game more interesting. |
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Post by fallen on Jul 15, 2014 15:37:50 GMT -5
phantombudgie - hehe, yes and "What difficulty are you playing on?" virtualrock - glad you enjoy the difficulty. Many of the TB hardcore fans do love diving in over their heads, with concrete tied to their feet, couple of knife cuts to bring the sharks, and no rebreather. The fun part is swimming out alive, right? Then you feel like a real bad ass  That's what the high difficulties are for!
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That's what the high difficulties are for!