Cross Platform Nightmare Ironman

[CdrPlatypus]

There is more than one way to skin this cat

[xdesperado]

Sept 15, 2014 3:49:19 GMT -5 CdrPlatypus said:

There is more than one way to skin this cat

Exactly and that's what keeps it so entertaining is figuring out different ways to not only survive but excel at it.

There is no Magic "perfect" solution and even the best laid strategy and carefully thought out character builds can wind up falling to shear bad luck.

I lost my last Ironman playthrough when 3 ranged enemies all decided to attack Kyera instead of Vraes and got 4 crits on her. Did the retry turn just for fun and same placement hero actions on my part had her living when the enemy attacked Vraes as expected.

Current playthrough had me sweating big time when 2 bowrats decided to target Kjartan instead of any of the others who were much closer. If I hadn't spammed them already with EA I'd be starting all over again.

[CdrPlatypus]

I put kjs first 2 attributes pts into constitution every time and at least one into everybody else

[plunk]

Eternal Anguish 4 costs 34, Eternal Anguish 1 costs 10. You don't save SP unless you hit 4 enemies.

And I'm not talking about camping inbetween battles. I'm talking about potion use during battles. That's 90 SP per turn. Enemies don't always start up bunched up, especially for a cross AoE.

AP is pretty questionable as you get 2 debuffs and 1 heal with 7 AP. That's more than enough to land Eternal Anguish and Tears.

But really it seems all you're doing is patching up something else that's fundamentally wrong with your party/strategy. I use Kyera as my second tank (when enemies appear behind or just to fill up a gap against Rat Swarms and those Iguanas? in the trench) and she's tanked Archers and Warriors and kept on going even when at the receiving end of 100-200 damage. I've never seen an enemy "crit", but I suspect you're just referring to enemies getting lucky with the Damage Die rather than an actual critical hit.

Except for the rare case of enemies taking the long way around (and you'll see them a mile away when they do this) enemies in the first areas of the game spawn in a way that make it easy to exploit their target the nearest AI.

Also Kjartan is the only one debuffing Armor. There's no overlap there. The only overlaps are AP and Dodge, the second is something Kjartan handles with just a few levels of Choking Ash for practically most enemies in Episode 1.

[xdesperado]

Selen gets PB to help debuff armor, my Kyera is not a melee type, with Selen leading party Kyera almost always ungloms at back of party. Vraes and Selen handle melee up front and I do my best to shuffle them so Vraes ends up in a choke point blocking for other 3. Rather than having Kyera standing around after EA is cast on all enemies I build up her HR, yes it's AP and SP intensive but can be very effective especially as it starts getting higher level. Kyera mainly trains Intelligence and generally gets first pick of SP boosting gear. It's only during the longest battles that she will ever need potions. Selen actually is more likely to be dipping into the potion stockpile than Kyera or Kjartan. With all 4 members able to contribute to the outgoing damage most battles tend to go very quickly as the enemies are systematically targeted as they close in and Vraes can easily deal with those that survive to reach him.

[plunk]

Pinning Shot reduces Dodge, Parry, and AP.

Also diagonals count as 1 range and Line of Sight affect target choices. So closer might just mean the same range. Also every damage skill deals lots of damage at higher levels. The issue is how slow points come in.

[xdesperado]

Sept 15, 2014 7:20:27 GMT -5 plunk said:

Pinning Shot reduces Dodge, Parry, and AP.

Yes I know but I said she also gets PB= Punishing Blades which strips armor and reduces enemy damage.

[plunk]

So why again is Eternal Anguish 4 good? You have -Damage and 2x -AP -2xDodge

I'm assuming you have initiative because the Thief is leading. Kyera has 3 MP to move into position to land 2x Eternal Anguish. Enemies rarely start in a position for cross AoE to be maximized.

If your goal is to deal damage with Kyera why delay the damage skill, when nearly every enemy is shut down (so only a handful of enemies will have a chance to attack), their physical bonus damage is mostly cut off and have dodge already reduced by 2 debuffs?

[En1gma]

I honestly have to go with plunk in this one... Before my last phone stb on me, I tried contributor's White Lights (??) Build, where Vincent boosts Lightning Spear to 10 afap, and also boosts Eternal Anguish as high as possible... Lightning Spear was amazing (I think I got it to 8 by the assault on the Vermin Lair. EA was about 4 or 5 and just sucking more sp than I had portions to handle. I don't think I would ever do that again before E2, she simply doesn't have the spirit pool to support it, even with major points into INT... I would rather run two or three sp curses and keep it a lower cost. For me, the -dodge and -accuracy aren't enough to make this talent worth it. I put maybe one point and just let it ride. If you want to hit groups consistently, go with Pinning Shot, and have Kyera Sacrificing spirit, while Vincent supports with a point or two of Flash Freeze for the tougher baddies. This way the ap cursing SP cost is balanced between three characters, and Kyera can lay off the potions a bit, opening up opportunities for Direct Damage or more points in Wards Shield etc...

[xdesperado]

Just reached Oskahold with current group. Party is all level 6. Kyera has Ethereal Anguish 4, Holy Retribution 1, Myshana's Tears 1, and Smiting Blow 1. She also has 298SP to power that. Leveling up from here on she'll be getting mostly HR with some Tears. Not sure what the issue is here, I've used this same basic build previously to complete episode one so know it works and as long as I'm willing to camp after every fight early on I'm not dependent on potions and stockpile them for major engagements.

[plunk]

That really doesn't answer the question. Why is Eternal Anguish 4 good? I'm already nearing the end of Episode 1, and Eternal Anguish is at 4, but that doesn't make it good. It has provided no substantial benefit that Eternal Anguish 1 couldn't.

[xdesperado]

plunk sorry guess it's a case of play styles and preferences.
If you don't appreciate the AoE effect for EA then perhaps in future playthroughs you should place those points elsewhere. Perhaps other Talents getting those 3 extra points will work out better with your strategies and tactics...or perhaps you'll find yourself missing the AoE version of EA.

For the record while many of the regular fights in E1 are easy to setup a choke point situation with your Tank/s getting most of the heat from enemies, there are several Boss fights and few regular ones where thats just not possible and that have large numbers of ranged attackers who will happily turn your weaker heroes into pincushions.

I find the ability to quickly reduce the number of attacks directed at my entire party useful and EA4 helps me do that, other strategies and tactics are equally as effective I'm sure.

[plunk]

And that's not substantial justification.

Eternal Anguish 1 will still hit ranged attackers. And because those are ranged attackers they are less likely to group together for the Cross AoE to be of any more use than single target.

Kyera can throw 3 Eternal Anguishes per turn, or 2 and 1 Tears. That's more than enough to debuff everything that's a threat. Especially if you properly bait the AI, which in Episode 1 is really really easy to do.

[fallen]

plunk - everyone has their own style, doesn't mean it needs to work for you If I build a group with EA, I like to go to EA 4.

[plunk]

I'm not really talking about styles, I'm talking about actual application. Because no matter your style, the enemy won't spawn in cross formations just because you have Eternal Anguish 4 instead of Eternal Anguish 1. Unless there's a hidden mechanic in the game that causes them to.

The obvious perk of AoE Eternal Anguish is that it supposedly will debuff faster than single target Eternal Anguish, and that this faster method of debuffing is essential to survival (since we're in an Ironman thread)

And so far, from what I've observed with the Enemy AI and how they spawn, nothing indicates that the AoE or faster debuffs would provide a significant benefit. So while there's a potential advantage, the game simply isn't providing the player opportunities to do so. Positioning slows the advance of enemies to a trickle, ranged enemies don't regularly spawn close together.

Let me give an actual example, I fought 2 warriors and 1 archer in a corridor. Eternal Anguish 4 could hit all of them. However what benefit would that have provided? Only 1 warrior and 1 archer could hit Vraes. The other warrior was stuck inbetween the first warrior and the archer. He was a non threat. Kyera could at her liesure debuff that last warrior when the first one gets killed and would have had no trouble debuffing the warrior and archer individually.

So the advantage here was a fake one. And the game was full of these. Battles didn't really put me in situations where lots of enemies were an imminent threat. There were battles with lots of enemies, but not all of them posed a threat right away.