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Post by lixxx235 on Oct 1, 2014 13:32:27 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with En1gma. Other houses accuse us of trying to control as many planets as possible. How much of your obstruction is just trying to stop another faction that you feel has some advantage in the beginning? Also, johndramey: a late request to consider exploring unknown area with the Templar ships. We originally stopped searching because of an abundance of colonize let worlds; that is no longer the case. |
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Post by En1gma on Oct 1, 2014 13:57:25 GMT -5
Seconded. We must explore our surrounding area fully and immediately, if not simply for the SS to find new planets for them to tell us we cannot colonize.
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ncaoa
Templar
Getting killed by Deathkin. Again.
Posts: 972 
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Post by ncaoa on Oct 1, 2014 15:18:35 GMT -5
Brother squee Ogsvidisio seems better placed to take the brunt of a Xeno force from the south, any world killers would attack there instead of Liewen, breaking against our superior defenses. It seems prudent to put Thulun's manufacturing slightly behind our shield.Both planets are also close together, allowing our forces to resupply easily and avoid overcrowding one system. A joint outpost between our two clans seems beneficial. |
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Post by lixxx235 on Oct 1, 2014 15:25:27 GMT -5
ncaoa: It is my opinion that you should colonize at least slightly farther out, exploring with your colony ship. My reasoning is that I don't believe we should be worrying about xeno getting to planets we can currently see anytime soon. Feel free to colonize where you please, though.
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Post by xdesperado on Oct 1, 2014 15:27:48 GMT -5
OOC johndramey can you please start a second locked thread that has just the pics of our thus far explored quadrant, listings of survey details and the current status of each Colony in it? It's becoming increasingly difficult to locate those things in this thread as our political maneuvering streams on page after page...much like real world political debates, where to often the politicians lose sight of what exactly it is they are arguing over.  |
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Post by johndramey on Oct 1, 2014 15:31:07 GMT -5
OOC johndramey can you please start a second locked thread that has just the pics of our thus far explored quadrant, listings of survey details and the current status of each Colony in it? It's becoming increasingly difficult to locate those things in this thread as our political maneuvering streams on page after page...much like real world political debates, where to often the politicians lose sight of what exactly it is they are arguing over. Good idea, I'll get on it. Maybe posting up the sector details + planetary details every round in the locked thread and just flavor text + commentary over here? |
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Post by En1gma on Oct 1, 2014 15:36:48 GMT -5
At last a voice of reason! House Thulun has no qualms about allowing Steel systems almost exclusively on the outer ramparts. Permitting us one or two in the end game would allow us to quickly reinforce the fleet where needed. Leiwen is close enough to the front to assist, without being a target, but close enough to ably assist Steel forces when needed.
I believe this arrangement would have the backing of the majority of the Thulun delegation. We should also keep in mind that with luck, the Eyes of Shalun and our other Templar warships will hopefully be able to peel back the fog surrounding the sector, allowing us a better view of the surrounding systems, and allowing us to begin finalizing our layout for the endgame, when we build our fleet and hunt down every filthy alien we can get in our sights.
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Post by xdesperado on Oct 1, 2014 15:37:21 GMT -5
johndramey however works best for you. It is nice seeing those details here in this thread as sort of the full report being made to the assembly, but after some debate it can be difficult locating those posts even with you providing some links in the OP. If you feel up to posting in both places great, if not lets keep this for the RP/discussions and your text reports and place the graphics in the locked thread.
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Post by xdesperado on Oct 1, 2014 15:43:51 GMT -5
ncaoa thank you my learned colleague from the Song. I believe if you go back through the minutes of our sessions here you will find that Ogvidissio was Thulun's original proposal for a second Steal Song Colony after Salveria. That proposal was based on what would best provide for both the defense of our core worlds and bolster the Alliances future expansion. Respectfully Marquis XDesperado Thulun Minister of War and Sentinal of Truth
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Post by slayernz on Oct 1, 2014 17:29:40 GMT -5
I maintain that expanding Thulun to both Tennath and Leiwin will put too much of a strain on our economy at its current state. , apologies for not responding earlier. I entered the delegation chambers as soon as matters of state would allow. Javat agrees with Steel Song in that expanding colonies rapidly then requires subsequent infrastructure pieces for each planet, hab units, factories, spice dens, etc. They all cost money, and the more planets that the Consensus has to teraform simultaneously, the less likelihood we will have any war chest for when things turn ugly. we respectfully disagree with the notion that waiting to expand our colonies will magically net us some gain. Unlike the Song and Javat clans, we will not be needing to subsidize anything- read again- anything for our colonies to be viable. Clan Javat has already requested subsidizing a factory, at a cost of four-hundred credits. That is equal to four hab units on any new colony we create, and will take almost as much time for said factory to be finished, when compared to our industrious nation. Yes, Thulun colonies can build faster, and can start contributing much more quickly with the promise of idle-credits = money. However in reality, when you first establish a planet, it will not have idle credits for many many months or even years. As stated earlier, getting basic infrastructure laid down is not cheap, and building fast means that you are consuming fund reserves at a quicker rate. Javat doesn't have the luxury of rapid construction, and knows that mines generate a lot more money than unused CP. As such, Javat needs to get to a position where we can build mines in a very rapid pace. Factories are a critical investment in the future productivity of the Consensus' treasury generation. Put another way, when you compare having factories fabricate construction equipment vs having a cheap labor force making the tools by hand, the factory wins hands down in terms of speed, efficiency, and scalability. Also, johndramey: a late request to consider exploring unknown area with the Templar ships. We originally stopped searching because of an abundance of colonize let worlds; that is no longer the case. The Consensus stopped searching because we are in no position to defend ourselves should we inadvertently come across an Alien ship, be it scout, colony, or warship. To make first contact this early will result in widescale annihilation and potentially the loss of the small foothold we have currently. xdesperado, Javat has no problems with you expanding to planets that you want - but please consider a more measured pace. If Thulun is determined to push ahead with expansive colonization, then please add mines to your first rounds of construction as a priority so that you can fund your initial expansions. The mines can be decommissioned at a later date, but at least we will have a quick injection of income to offset the teraforming effort. As always, we are working together to help the Voice of Consensus move the three factions forward together, for together, we all have the best chance of ultimate survival. |
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ncaoa
Templar
Getting killed by Deathkin. Again.
Posts: 972
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Post by ncaoa on Oct 1, 2014 17:44:27 GMT -5
I concur with delegate slayernz about mines. They will take longer to establish but are much more reliable than a manufacturing based economy. Of course, TP are even better but we are far from that. |
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Post by xdesperado on Oct 1, 2014 17:46:37 GMT -5
slayernz Thulun had no interest at this juncture of Colonizing further than Tennath and Leiwen. Our projections for the building of those two Colonies called for the inclusion of a mine at each to help them recover the initial investment in a more expeditious fashion. That said we don't wish to over invest in costly mines at this stage which will later need to be decommissioned due to the relatively low natural resources. Adding unused production facilities to bolster Alliance funds and freeing up research will expedite the recovery of more significant technologies to the advantage of all. Additionally we had no intention of asking for Alliance subsidies to speed the colonization process on those worlds as we agree the extra funds are better used to help expidite the Steel Song and Javat construction so they may better support the Alliance. Respectfully Marquis XDesperado Thulun Minister of War and Sentinal of Truth
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Post by En1gma on Oct 1, 2014 17:51:01 GMT -5
I/We have stated several times that if the Alliance wishes Thulun to build mines it can be done. We understand the issues concerning new colonies, and are willing to make amenities to that fact. Such as not making it commonplace to subsidize new construction unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. We are also willing to build mines in order to offset the costs incurred. What else can we offer to this meeting? Past these things we are unlikely to reach full consensus within our delegation.
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Post by slayernz on Oct 1, 2014 17:58:11 GMT -5
En1gma, you get Tennath straight away - and I'm pretty sure that Steel Song and Javat will be okay with Leiwin within the next Consensus turn or so. If xdesperado speaks for all Thulun and is prepared to restrict this phase of expansion to only Tennath and Leiwin until such time as we have more of a resource base to play with, then that may well be a strong influencing factor for multi-factional approval.
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Post by lixxx235 on Oct 1, 2014 18:03:03 GMT -5
slayernz: our goals for colonizing quickly were to set up income-generating structures as quickly as possible. Twenty weeks have already passed and I respectfully disagree with the notion that we are going too quickly. If anything, having Thulun colonize planets will save tremendous amounts of money, by simply having Thulun not subsidize everything. Also, your statement "quickly set up mines" is deceptive; it will take you *at least* ten turns to set up a mine, subsidizing immediately and not doing anything else. In practice, the time before we start to see *any return at all* on our investment is likely to be greater than half a year, and even at that it would take 18 turns to break even *on the cost of the mine alone*. Javat colonies, I'm sorry to say, are a far worse drain on Alliance funds than Thulun colonies are. (Let's run through a likely simulation, "s" denoting subsidized: Javat: s-hab-7t -> s-factory-18t -> s-hab-5t -> mine-8 or 5t. That's 35 turns *at least* before even thinking about any return at all, having invested $1300 already Thulun: hab-4 -> factory-5t -> hab-2t -> mine-4 or 3t. That's 15 turns *at most* before getting income, and that was after a total investment of $700. Plus, there is far better infrastructure here than if we had gone Javat; already the system is as good as or better than Javat Prime as it stands now.)
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