Community Plays; Star Traders 4X

[dragolord]

I respectfully submit that it would be econnomically better if the second colony ship were to be held in the queue, not orbit. Upkeep money has crippled many a quadrant before, and the ship's may cause our Javati brethren to complain even more.

[slayernz]

A clear voice of reason. Note though, it hasn't been Javat that has been complaining about costs, subsidies, or funding. That effort seems to be solely coming from the Thulun Faction. For Javat's part, we just want to build up the ability to produce mines - lots of mines so we can flood the Consensus treasury with lots of money. Any way we can do that faster is what we will be aiming to do.

[johndramey]

Awesome, glad everything is cleared up. I'm still at work, but will run the turns on my way home and hopefully get everything posted for you guys tonight.

[xdesperado]

slayernz you want to boost the economy then start backing Thulun's move to colonize Leiwen istead of blocking it.
The sooner we can start additional colony's the sooner we can turn more focus on researching better technology for the betterment of all.

Blocking us from legitimate growth helps to neither stimulate the economy, further our reclamation of technology nor enhance the safety of humanity in this quadrant.

We of House Thulun are not seeking to mindlessly seize all discovered worlds but instead lay the foundation of research and production needed for the overall wellbeing of humanity in this quadrant.

We are not requesting more than basic funding for the startup of Tennath and Leiwen we seek merely the approval from our fellow reasonable council members in Javat and Steel Song in pursuing a plan that is in the best interests of all humanity.

Respectfully
Marquis XDesperado
Thulun Minister of War and Sentinal of Truth

[slayernz]

xdesperado, for the record I have never said you shouldn't get Leiwen and have done nothing to block your acquisition of the planet. The only thing I said was that planetary expansion needs to be done with some consensus of the factions, because one faction may have a legitimate claim or purpose for that particular planet, be it for strategic positioning, or great raw resources. If Steel Song have a claim on the planet (and again, I'm not saying they do), I am suggesting that it is something that Thulun and Steel Song need to agree on before a colonist ship rocks up over the planet. In this endeavour, Javat are but the peace keepers - we have no desire to take the planet for ourselves.

[xdesperado]

slayernz my apologies learned colleague, some in your faction have been very vocal, while Steel Songs representatives have been strangely absent from council of late.

I'm merely urging your backing if the Song remains silent.

[slayernz]

xdesperado, If we don't hear any objections from Steel Song, then when the Voice of Consensus next asks for faction votes, I have no problem with supporting your claim for Leiwen.

[johndramey]

Ok, folks. Got the turns processed and everything is green. Problem is, I'm super busy tonight. I won't be able to post an update until sometime tomorrow. Sorry, folks

I'll try to get this updated tomorrow ASAP, so stay tuned!

[squee]

As before, I maintain that expanding Thulun to both Tennath and Leiwin will put too much of a strain on our economy at its current state. Bear in mind that Thulun's 2 additional CP means it will complete projects at three times the speed, which means it could require approximately three times as much money to sustain its growth. You are simply mistaken if you equate expansion with economic growth. In order to keep the economy healthy, we must be wiser about growing and expanding our colonies. The most important point I need to make is that new colonies take quite some time to become economically sufficient, let alone provide positive net income (factoring in building costs).

After Thulun obtains Tennath, we must must keep an eye out on the economy for a while to ensure that we are stable before we start on the next Thulun colony. It's clear to me now that it will be wiser to divert our funds to expanding the Javat colonies before Thulun.

As for the fate of Leiwin, at this point it is not clear if it will become an important theater of counter-Xeno operations. If the enemy appears to the south within a short time period, it is vital that Steel Song obtains that system for the defense of our empire. Otherwise, since they feel so strongly about it, I see no reason to bar Thulun from taking Leiwin when it appears safe to do so. However, at this point we must prevent any premature colony agreements for Leiwin that could compromise our economy and the security of the Exodus.

Some of the Thulun delegates are fairly vocal about continuing their expansion, but what do the Javat think of my proposal?

I am also concerned with the lack of ideal mining systems for Javat. We must expand our influence further. Steel Song is also in silent agreement with the current research goals, and we have no qualms there.

[En1gma]

squee while I understand where you are coming from, we respectfully disagree with the notion that waiting to expand our colonies will magically net us some gain. Unlike the Song and Javat clans, we will not be needing to subsidize anything- read again- anything for our colonies to be viable. Clan Javat has already requested subsidizing a factory, at a cost of four-hundred credits. That is equal to four hab units on any new colony we create, and will take almost as much time for said factory to be finished, when compared to our industrious nation.

We have said it before and we will continue to say it- if this council desires research and fleet production, then we must be allowed to create these new colonies.

I have also mentioned that if these minuscule costs are going to be an actual thorn in the rears of our fellow factions, then we can consider building mines on one or more of our systems. But please keep in mind that this will only slow down research and hinder overall growth of the quadrant.

[squee]

En1gma With all due respect, this is not about magically producing gains, this is about careful foresight and intelligent resource management. We must move to expand our ability to gather resources first and foremost before we can embark on any grand endeavors. Of course research is important, but Thulun colonies will not give any bonus research unless they are idle in production, something that you probably want to avoid. Economy is once again what we must emphasize most. In regards to that, extra Thulun colonies at this point will be a liability in the long run. Thulun colonies will be able to set up faster than Javat or Steel Song, but that will not be beneficial unless we have the economic backing. In fact, Thulun's advanced construction will allow them to grow quickly when they need it, which is not now, not for two extra colonies. I would even advise that it is wiser to use your specialty to build more mines on your first two colonies than to keep expanding.

As a member of Steel Song, we prefer quality of our fleet rather than quantity. Thulun would indeed be able to produce ships quicker, but a developed Steel colony can be almost as fast and its ships will be better suited for combat. Steel Song planets are also most suited for setting up defensive positions on the borders due to our powerful defensive fortifications. You expressed dissatisfaction with being placed in the rear and "lead" (presumable the "inferior" Song and Javat) from there, but Thulun systems are in fact more suitable to be placed behind the front lines and let Steel Song handle the brunt of the Xeno assaults.

[xdesperado]

squee Not sure what your basing your equations on but quite frankly Thulun colonies can not only pay for themselves but start adding to the Alliance coffers much faster than either Javat or Steel Song. We require much less in the way of start up funding and will begin showing a profit much faster. Factor in to your equations that once basic needs of a new Thulun colony is met that colony can then turn its focus to research while using it's productivity to boost the economy.
You want better quality ships? That requires research, research you are ill suited to conduct but that Thulun thrives in.
Your major objection seeems to be based on an idea that Leiwin is a key defensive position, and while I submit that it can become invaluable in supporting our defense of humanity in this quadrant, it is not a prime location for defense of the core worlds at present nor in future.

[squee]

xdesperado I would prefer not to have to restate my arguments, but my point is to hold off on colonizing Leiwin until we can secure our economy. If it does turn out the Xeno is located to the south, this system will indeed become an important strategic location. I do not see any proposals from your faction that will help any of your current colonies become self-sufficient, either. Let's say we put most of our money into new colonies for Thulun. It will only be a matter of time before our bumbling politicians which we all know we have limited control over will start trade embargoes and other conflicts, and then our economy will hit rock bottom with no way to generate additional income to climb out of the hole we have dug ourselves in. As I have been stating from the beginning, we can put the Thulun industry to good use by building mines.

Also, you seem to have great pride in your research, but it will only benefit us when your colonies are sitting idly. Your research will not be a significantly useful factor in this early time period.

[xdesperado]

squee we dont need mines to generate income, and our research bonus is actually more significant at this point than later on when additional technologies have become available and are in place. Any unused CP will be converted to cash for the Alliance while our institutes cary on accelerated research. Building additional mines saps current resources and in Thulun's case provides minimal return on that investment, especially considering we don't have large reserves of natural resources to tap into on our world so over building mines at this stage will mean they are wasted when better mining technology is unlocked.

Steel Song is in no position to Colonize Leiwen at this stage which means that if it represents such a prime location in our defense it is currently wide open to Xeno incursion and you would have us leave it so into the indefinite future.

Frankly I am starting to believe your more interested in seizing worlds for the Song than in working to build a strong unified Alliance for the betterment of humanity in this quadrant.

Respectfully
Marquis XDesperado
Thulun Minister of War and Sentinal of Truth

[En1gma]

Even assuming we have another, more defensible ring of planets lying in the fog around its, Leiwen will still be an important system for Thulun to occupy.

I don't understand the obstructionism taking place in the Assembly right now. The Xeno is out there. If the Steel Song, barring any input from Officer Genious or any other members of the faction, truly feels that the only solution is to bring up baseless reasons why we shouldn't colonize Leiwen, and is not willing to offer any real solutions, then I call on the other members of the Assembly to weigh in on the matter, and to discuss their opinions concerning these difficulties.

House Thulun is growing tired of banging our heads against this wall. There is no reason for any further obstructions- I shall say it again: we are not simply plying ourselves into these systems for spite. Our quadrant is completely vulnerable to incursion as it stands. We must expand our circle of influence, and if it just so happens that we can do it more efficiently than the other factions then so be it! There will be other planets for the Song to colonize, but in the meantime we need defenses put in place.

What say you, Javat, and other members of the Assembly?

Earnestly,
Ambassador En1gma