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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 4, 2015 11:46:21 GMT -5
With the whole tokens vs subscription thing, definitely tokens.
the more control the player has as to how much they pay the better.
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 4, 2015 19:11:54 GMT -5
That's just it -- subscriptions actually give the player way more control.
But the facts of how the markets work don't really matter -- how people perceive them is what counts.
Subscriptions, quantitatively, are better for us as a company and way better for the players but I think based on this small sample we've got to put that idea right out of our heads!
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 4, 2015 19:58:33 GMT -5
I may be mixed up with what you mean by subscriptions.
I was vaguely imagining a self-reccuring transaction every month, rather than what you probably meant (paying for 1/3/6/12 months in one go.)
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 5, 2015 13:32:26 GMT -5
No, I was talking about a self-reoccurring transaction ... but Google/Apple/Amazon make those extremely user friendly.
Subscriptions allow cancel any time, pro-rated immediate refunds of unused subscription elements, free trial periods, confirm-to-pay mode, discounts for pay up front, etc.
None of those options are valid for tokens. However, I don't think Google/Apple/Amazon have done a good job for subscriptions ... which is probably why everyone said on this tread said they are bad or advised us to avoid them.
As a user, I love subscriptions on Google Play and Apple iTunes because I know how player friendly they are, and how many excellent options they give me as a consumer. However, I learned those things reading the developer documentation, not from the markets themselves.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 5, 2015 13:44:15 GMT -5
I have never used either, to be honest.
I think the word 'subscription' has this bad connotation (for me) because I would feel like I was being locked into the game, regardless of what would actually happen. Hearing you explain subscriptions makes me feel better about possibly using them, but I think the majority of your fan base wouldn't understand the need...
Unless there is a direct way to inform possible buyers about the benefits of subscription usage, I don't know how you would sway people to feel differently about it...
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 5, 2015 13:49:36 GMT -5
Right -- market perception is reality. Without Google fixing this issue, we've got no chance to survive the onslaught of 1 star reviews.
This is a bit of a wake up call -- maybe we aren't big enough or strong enough as a company to do multiplayer because we have to pay the costs for the servers and don't feel comfortable selling user data.
Will people crush us with 1 star reviews if we did tokens? What is the user perception on that? Probably as bad as worse than subs. And if we don't do something like that we cannot afford it.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 5, 2015 13:51:25 GMT -5
While on the other hand... (now that I really think about it...) You may also face serious issues if the token system feels too much like micro-transactions or required IAP. I'm torn on this one, Cory Trese...
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Post by fallen on Sept 5, 2015 15:10:01 GMT -5
Simply put, we could not afford to put up a multiplayer game without some kind of recurring revenue -- subscription, tokens, or consumable IAPs (which is what the market at large is using, but yuck). A simple paid app setup would not allow a company our size to get involved.
Thanks to everyone giving the feedback! Very illuminating about the market perception.
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Sept 6, 2015 0:35:44 GMT -5
fallen , Cory Trese I do want to clarify that although I believe subscriptions have a bad perception I myself would be willing to pay a subscription for a TB developed multiplayer turn a day style game/
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 6, 2015 10:16:35 GMT -5
I really do think it would be amazing to have a giant online turn based battle.
I suspect we'd have to open a whole new forum for the discussion of who's clans are besties and who's at war with who.
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Post by fallen on Sept 6, 2015 10:21:38 GMT -5
I really do think it would be amazing to have a giant online turn based battle. I suspect we'd have to open a whole new forum for the discussion of who's clans are besties and who's at war with who. A wonderful and exciting dream for sure We hope everyone can support us -- tell a friend, leave a review, try all the games, join the Patreon -- and we can keep moving forward!
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Sept 6, 2015 10:27:19 GMT -5
I really do think it would be amazing to have a giant online turn based battle. I suspect we'd have to open a whole new forum for the discussion of who's clans are besties and who's at war with who. The Sock Puppets at war with the Templars.
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 6, 2015 17:56:39 GMT -5
All I know is Queen G would probably lead the most bloodthirsty alliance in the entire sphere =)
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Post by johndramey on Sept 6, 2015 23:33:03 GMT -5
Cory Trese, the subscription model sounds a lot better than I imagined. It might be worth a try, however it would definitely require A LOT of care and attention from you guys. You'd have to find a way of letting the user know all that stuff because, honestly, I had no idea. If everything you said is true (easy cancellation, prorated refunds of unused time, etc) then I'd say go for the subscription model. Just, the big problem I see is users leaving negative reviews due to the "omg IAP/subscription" factor. They are precisely the kind of user that won't read any of the information you post on the app info section, and as such I think you'd probably eat a lot of 1 star reviews just simply due to the ignorance of the consumer. Really difficult concept to ponder.....
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 6, 2015 23:42:50 GMT -5
We have been pondering. Another way to generate money to pay for hosting is to sell advertising.
We were kicking around the idea of a free version that let you join a small war, a paid version that let you play on the huge map and join the free map.
Then a third option would be a more expensive subscription that let you create a certain number of games and invite paid players to join them.
The "main game" would be a very large war with the maximum number of paying players and we'd hope for new players to join regularly enough from the free version to pay for the baseline hosting.
We'd offer a subscription basically for players who wanted to have control over part of the server cluster -- they could host on the alternate maps, configure slightly different rules, turn tick rate, starting power levels, public, private, invite only and so on.
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