phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368 
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Post by phaze on Dec 3, 2015 7:50:00 GMT -5
I recently started a berserk rage Vraes with dreams of massive critical damage hits. Having not played him since Kincaid came out, it was fun to wipe the dust off.
The damage was great and would have exploded exponentially, but I found myself a bit bored. I really missed Flanking unity for group support. I realized similarly that I chose Selen over Tamilin for her talents that allowed more dynamics than raw damage. Tamilin, having gotten tweaks to black night, her ranged stealth attack, and getting a -ap attack will be competitive with Selen and rotate in my parties.
Vraes is still very narrow and seems a bit dated to me.
I also recognize that raw damage is not my favorite mode, so this is just my opinion.
Some thoughts for talent changes. Extend berserk rage damage to a party buff, include armor penalty maybe. The crit chance would be too powerful unless scaled down. Just imagine Vraes shouting and leading the party to a reckless charge.
Make savage sweep a curse attack. Have enemy get -acc or - dam or -1 ap. I always envision this attack as a quick but brutal
swipe to an enemies exposed vital areas.
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Post by fallen on Dec 3, 2015 7:52:37 GMT -5
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368
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Post by phaze on Dec 3, 2015 8:08:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. He is functioning as intended!
Just not my style of play for the most part.
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Post by samopop on Dec 3, 2015 16:14:41 GMT -5
My 2 cents: I'm okay with him being purposely selfish and attack-focused, but then he should *really* be able to clean house since everyone else can contribute to the group dynamics more. I've never played a high-level Vraes, but my concern with him is how well his attack-focused nature works in the late-game. With enemies regularly having 500+ HP and multiple spawners in battle able to spawn 2 enemies per round, it seems like you need strong AOE to be successful. Again, I haven't tried it so I could be completely wrong, but I don't see how even ferocity for every attack is going to be sufficient. Vraes, uniquely (with all of the talent updates that have occurred), does not have any AOE attacks. Maybe I'm not giving juggernaut enough credit . . . but it seems a lot harder to utilize effectively as a pseudo-AOE.
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 3, 2015 16:39:08 GMT -5
Vraes IMO is strongest in the late game. Averaging 500 damage per turn, takes out summoners and bosses with ease.
Stacking heavy armor, melee defense and massive HP pool, he can march into the middle of a wave of enemies, kill the summoner and shrug off all the hits.
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Post by fallen on Dec 3, 2015 16:41:09 GMT -5
samopop - I'd definitely suggest trying out a high level Vraes. He's a murder machine - especially if you pull in on Juggernaut and Ferocity. Because of his powerful selfish buffs (best in the game, arguably) he can be much more focused in his gear and weapon choices. Rely on Stone Skin and Phalanx Shield and crank in on damage and critical. Or better yet, prop up Berserk Rage with Stone Skin to see Criticals flying every turn. Having played the entire game a few times with Vraes, he is my choice between the two, especially on higher difficulties or anytime I get near an Ironman ladder.
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Post by slayernz on Dec 3, 2015 17:08:14 GMT -5
I love Vraes just because he is the tank that nobody can bring down. Yes, if it was just him on a lone wolf scenario, you'd be a bit challenged because Vraes is so one-dimensional. However, with a balanced party using Vraes as the bait, packs get brought down with ease. Vraes wades in, gets them all to clump around him, and Tami Range Onslaughts the lot of them to death. Oh, and the others chip in a bit as well  |
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Post by samopop on Dec 3, 2015 17:11:55 GMT -5
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Post by xdesperado on Dec 3, 2015 17:29:35 GMT -5
My only real issue with Vraes is his lack of any sort of ranged attack at all.
If he had something like Kincaid's Throwing Knives then without question he'd be THE TANK, as is you have to get him past the early level dealing with all those Bowrats and the Krete before he really has the skills to brush off ranged attacks and plow in close.
Once he's got some Burst of Speed, Stone Skin and maybe Phalanx Shield he's fine as long as the rest of group can support him.
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Post by slayernz on Dec 3, 2015 17:37:39 GMT -5
Yeah Vraes could be useful with a ranged attack - especially when some of the enemy purposefully works to keep distance between your party and it. It is important to keep Vraes close to the others so they can take out the ranged enemy, but having Vraes offer some sort of distance attack would improve his standing as being more than just a large boulder with sharp pointy things sticking out of it.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 3, 2015 17:54:14 GMT -5
Vraes wants to be the barbarous, raging juggernaut eating talent points like breath mints. Feed the beast!
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Post by anrdaemon on Dec 3, 2015 21:33:46 GMT -5
I never felt Vraes lacking. It depends highly on your build, but it can be anything, from unstoppable juggernaut to immovable colossus. And with some care - everything in between.
My second party slowly getting closer to CoD right now (done Koda and cleaning Underdeep bar the last fight, on which I'm holding off till I get some proper sleep), but comparing Vraes in my first party (Burst 5, Phalanx 10, Stoneskin 5, Ferocity 5) with what I have right now (Ferocity 1, Burst 3, Skin 3, Phalanx 10, amplified by Fyona's Righteous Fervor/Shield of Cortias), I can say that both Vraes and Fyona make a very aggressive tandem. Aggressive and dynamic. Vraes is very much my switch hitter, as unlikely it may sound. With maxed Strength+Spears he's putting out reliable damage, in fact I'm often ignoring Ferocity and going for Crushing Blow, because damage is comparable and drop in accuracy is negligible, but SP usage is way, way more forgiving. Unless I'm punching fat enemies and every point of accuracy and damage counts.
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368
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Post by phaze on Dec 3, 2015 22:06:49 GMT -5
Interesting. I'll keep plugging with away with Vraes, but I exclusively switched to kincaid for nightmare ironman ladder explicitly because I find him to be vastly more substantial as a tank and damage dealer.
Sure parry > phalanx shield for reliability in controlling damage. Ranged attacks are the death knell for all characters and Kincaid can handle this while vraes melts even with maxed phalanx and high armor and hp. The red keep is testing my patience having to retreat often.
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Post by anrdaemon on Dec 3, 2015 23:44:40 GMT -5
Nightmare is my next goal, if I get second party through CoD before NY. (I still have a way long road, though. Storm Brothers, Fang, and CoD itself, nothing is even touched yet.)
I'll probably pick "team A", unless new Tamilin's talent is out by then. Then I'll see, and would probably prefer VKFT, as I feel more comfortable with two tanks on the field.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 4, 2015 1:02:17 GMT -5
phaze when you've maxed dex, BoS and phalanx I fail to see how that is inferior to Kincaid at ranged D for a similar 20 talent points.
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