Some questions about TA

[slayernz]

baxterr
The Gatehouse mission is certainly mission #4 in the campaign. It's not the airlock one that I had thought, and originally the Gatehouse was an experimental steandalone level. It was marked as hard, or something similar and yes, caused lots of deaths.

The level was tweaked a lot to make it less painful, but is certainly not a cakewalk.

Nonetheless, If you were reasonably comfortable in the preceding two levels (where your party starts at point A, and you have to get to an extraction point B), then the tactic is simple. Run like Hell. Don't spend too much time actually turning to kill Xenos unless you are going to be attacked. Have your team move as quickly as possible into that eastern corridor, ideally with one or two of your faster units covering the flanks of the others.

Once you have made it into the eastern corridor, move your squad east as fast as you feel you can. Keeping 1 or 2 AP spare for the end of the round will allow you to react to any xenos that pop up in front of you. IF you find you have Xenos coming up behind, then check the colour. What you want coming up behind you is a blue xeno with green exoskeleton. They only move 2 squares per part of turn and there are three sub-turns in a full turn. This means that these Xenos can only move 6 squares per turn. The other Xenos (eg all blue with blue skeleton) moves 3 squares per sub-turn. So this does mean you have to turn and kill the all-blue Xenos, but if you have a fast scout, you can keep pace, and even out-run a Blue-Green Xeno. If you keep turning around and killing things, you'll quickly find that there are more spawn points than there are knights, and you'll be over-run before you know it.

Ideally your lsat guy won't need to turn around, but if he does, make sure you have a backup unit to help protect him when he has to turn around and move forward next turn. That means your backup should be about 3 or so squares further east and able to turn at the beginning of the next round to provide cover fire while your rear-most knight turns around and moves forward the 4 or 5 squares he has for the next turn.

You should be able to get to the extraction point in a resonably quick time, without being swamped.

Hints and tips:
1. By this level, all your characters should be able to move at full pace. That is Quickness + Tactics = 6. If you can't move 6 squares, you're at a disadvantage.
2. The only gear your new squad should have purchased by now is 3x Plasma Rifles. These Plasma Rifles have 4 square range, and therefore allow you to react to threats a lot more efficiently.
3. The best squad to use on these extraction point missions are Scouts because they get a bonus 1 movement per turn (with some conditions). The ability to move 7 squares per turn is invaluable!

[baxterr]

Hey slayernz!

I tried this with a full squad of scouts but even then I wasnt fast enough.
Most times my way got blocked by approaching Xenos so I had to fight them. As these Xenos all have 4 HP and my squad is quite new (but they all have 6AP already) it takes about 3 to 4 shots to take one down of no shot misses. But there are like 5 approaching at once. Only my captain can almost reliably kill them in 2 strikes with his Null Blade.
Dont mention melee combat for my normal squad members. I had such a frustrating time with (using 5AP to get health down from 4 to 2 and other jokes). -.-

fallen
What question bothers me now:
7. In the defense round some knights loose their AP quicker than others, sometimes both Frontsoldiers loose their AP so they cant react to an approaching Xeno which just moved into range, while my rearguard still have AP but they cant do anything since I have to turn them around first
Whats about this?
I thought its like: Enemy move - Option to spend Defense AP - End Turn removes 1 AP from every soldier - Enemy Move - Option to spend last AP point when no point was spend at the first chance - End turn removes last AP - Enemy Move - New Turn
Sometimes it seems that the AP disappear completely after round 1 and some Templars already lost 1 AP before the first defense turn begins or sometimes they dont seem to loose any and I had a third defense phase. Is this correct? When yes, is there some kind condition for either to happen or is it randomized?

[fallen]

baxterr -as the enemy turn progresses, your Templars lose their AP. If the aliens have a long way to move, then by the time they arrive, you can have already spent your 2 AP waiting.

[baxterr]

Feb 27, 2015 10:26:51 GMT -5 fallen said:

baxterr -as the enemy turn progresses, your Templars lose their AP. If the aliens have a long way to move, then by the time they arrive, you can have already spent your 2 AP waiting.

fallen
Thanks for the answer! I am aware of the fact you are mentioning, but I recognized that sometimes when 2 Templars both enter the defense phase with 2 AP to spend, one of them loses one AP already before I can take the first defense move.
Take this example:
Captain Vega - 3 AP left
Martus Victin - 2 AP left
Button 'End Turn' pressed

Captain Vega - 2 AP left
Martus Victin - 2 AP left

Now its getting weird:
Alien, which was already on screen moves closer, afterwards the first defense turn starts, but!
Captain Vega - 1 AP
Martus Victin - 2 AP

Suddenly one of the templars has one less AP and I have no explaination why. The point was lost before I was even able to make a defensive move. The Xenoform didnt take 2 turns here and Martus still has his full defensive APs.
So when the alien is not in melee range I can try to use my sidearm and hope he will kill it with 1 shot, otherwise the Xeno will close in next turn and hit Captain Vega in the third round, as Martus Victin is facing the other direction and cannot turn around + fire.
This does not happen exclusively to the Captain, I have seen this on a Neptune, a soldier and a scout aswell.
To sum it up: The soldiers defensive APs are sometimes taken away for no reason and I would like to know if it is a wanted behaviour and what triggers it?

[bob]

Hi. I also have a dead hydra and neptune from this quit mission thing. (Galaxy s4)

As to the other problem mentioned above. If the unit does not see an enemy you take 1 ap away earlier. But then take another when the ones that did see the enemy.

[fallen]

baxterr - the loss of AP is based on the Templar who detects the alien presence, and those who are farther away from the front and therefore not in position to take action.

bob - thanks for the report, we are working that for the next release.

[fallen]

baxterr - fixed for next!

Thanks for the detailed report.

[baxterr]

Mar 15, 2015 16:18:57 GMT -5 fallen said:

baxterr - fixed for next!

Thanks for the detailed report.

Hey there!
Has been some time since I visited the forum, but I was happy to see the bugfix deployed.
Since I downloaded the update, I had 2 templars dying while on a mission.
Every time I aborted they were back from the dead.
I guess it is not quite necessary for you but I still wanted to give the feedback that it now works as intended

P.S.: Came up with another question.
Why the hell do some Xenoforms still have 3 moves after I had to press End Turn because I couldnt act in any proper way?
Sometimes it even happens that my Neptune Gunner (who usually kills everything in front of him) is approached by a Xeno after my last Defense Turn and hit twice, even if the Xeno wasnt in sight before.

How am I supposed to counter that?
Usually I cant do anything to prevent it, since my soldiers are out of AP even if I didnt spend any of them.
I've got the feeling that this is some kind of artificial difficulty for the later levels.

[slayernz]

After phase 1 of a turn is over, you are always left with the minimum of 2AP or what you have left after your movement/attacks of phase 1. That is:
If your captain has 4AP left at the end of phase 1 and you press "end turn", then your captain will have 2AP.

If you have 1AP left at the end of phase 1, you will be left with 1AP for the beginning of phase 2.

As the TB's have said, if you don't see a Xeno, then your squad member sheds AP in each phase (1AP per phase). This is because after Phase 1, all reserved AP are purely defensive. If there is no threat, the defensive AP dissipates at 1AP per phase. This gives you a total of 3 phases of movement within a turn.

The Xenos also have 3 phases ...

so it goes

Phase 1 You move ...
... then Xeno moves (depending on Xeno, can move 1, 2, 3, or 4 squares)
Phase 2 You have 2AP left and get to attack/move. If there aren't any Xenos in sight, then you might not actually get to move
... then Xeno moves (again, can move up to 4 squares)
If you have any AP left, you get to move again. If no Xeno is in sight, you lose 1 more AP (resulting in zero defensive AP).
... then the Xeno moves one last time.

If you've used all of your AP up in phase 1, then the Xeno still gets to have its Phase 2 and Phase 3.

To counter this - you just have to know your Xenos. Watch their movement. If they move 2AP in a phase, then you'll know they can move 2ap in other phases too. Blue Xenos move slower than green Xenos, and Narvidians are bloomin fast.

If you storm up the map, the fog of war doesn't keep up with you. That's because you're running and not paying attention to your surroundings. Move slower, and have your squad member backed up by one other squad member. (always try and move in pairs).

Avoid standing too close to a blind corner at the end of phase 1, especially if you have dashed up there and used up your AP.

Even the bold step with a little caution

[baxterr]

Hey slayernz!

Thanks for the answer.
You are right about the points you've stated but let me explain my problem more closely.

Let's just do it like this:
*= empty space
C= Captain (Null Blade, Heavy Plasma Sidearm)
S= Soldier (Leviathan Repeater)
X= Blue Xenoform (usually 1 tile per movement phase)

X****CS

My Squad just moved 2 Squares in the direction of the Captain.
There is a soldier behind him, guarding his back. The others are not important since they guard the rear and cannot be used for combat to the front of the squad.

Since the rearguards have only 2AP left, the squad is halted at this place, the Xenoform is out of (current) sight.
I press End Turn, my Captain and Soldier lose their remaining (non-defensive) AP.
The Fog of War clears a bit since my squad is standing, the Xenoform becomes visible.
The Xenoform moves 1 Tile closer.

X***CS

Now I've got time to react since both of them can "see" the Xenoform, both have 2 AP.
The Captain cannot reach the Xeno with his blade since he would be out of AP before he reaches it. His Sidearm cannot reach it either this turn.
The Soldier has a Leviathan Repeater and therefore only has a range of 3 tiles.
I decide not to do anything and I press End Turn.
If my math is correct, the Xeno has now 2 movements left. So even if I dont kill it, the next turn, when all AP are gone and all Xenos moved should look like this:
X*CS

But back to my explaination.
When I pressed End Turn, the Xeno behaves as expected, he moves 1 tile closer. It now looks like this:
X**CS

Captain and Soldier each have 1AP left.
Now I can decide:
1. Shoot it with the captain.
2. Press End Turn, since it shouldnt reach us this turn right?

I try to shoot it since I've got the chance.
Sadly the captain misses his shot (or didnt kill it whole, I cant remember).
I end the turn since the soldier does not have the Xeno in range yet.
The Xeno moves:
X*CS

Now the turn should end. But the Xeno's a bitch.
Suddenly he gains up speed, and goes in melee range:
XCS

Then: The Xeno attacks the captain - blocked.
Then: The Xeno attacks again - Captain is hit, loses 2 HP.

And all my question is about: Where did the Xeno get the additional movement from? When the Xeno is faster than 1 tile per movement, it is not unlikely for them to move out of the fog of war into melee range and still attack the same turn.

Sometimes I also recognize this with Xenoforms lining up behind a slow, blue one.
You can see them behind the blue.
Sometimes the blue doesnt have these additional movement, but they do.
You can recognize it because they are flashing, but they cant move since the slow blue one blocks the path. Sometimes a single xeno flashes up to 3 times.

Additionally this seems to be completely random as these "additional" moves may not apply to the same Xeno the next turn.

In Exchange I've got to admit that some Xenos have less movements.
Once a Xeno approached my captain in the last turn. I hit it with my sword, but didnt kill it. Then everyone was out of AP so I expected the Xeno to attack at least once. But that did not happen and the next turn started.

Now I am confused :S

[slayernz]

Hmmm ... maybe I haven't played TA recently enough - I'll leave it to Cory Trese to clarify because I think I might have done a disservice I hope you have pumped some XP into defensive points. That'll stop you from getting damage from the Xeno.

[Brutus Aurelius]

I believe some of it may the Alien can spend AP to move further, if I'm not mistaken. I do know that the Alien gets up to two movement phases where it can move up to its full speed each time.

[Cory Trese]

I spent 2 years perfecting the TA turn and AI math, but now I'm focused on TA2.

Suffice it to say that TA is finished from a rules perspective, and everything in the post above is part of the game's design.

[fallen]

baxterr - xenos are unpredictable terrible creatures. They get move bonuses from a dice.

[Cory Trese]

Apr 16, 2015 10:45:14 GMT -5 fallen said:

baxterr - xenos are unpredictable terrible creatures. They get move bonuses from a dice.

That they do. Some of the AI get more dice the more they get hurt