Some of these mobs...

[matrim]

I've noticed that certain spawns are significantly harder than others. For example, the Volpa were challenging but when there were 15 of them on the screen I still would only get hit 1-3 times (except for Volpa shamen, great job on those by the way. Love the attack animation and they are very scary with that curse and high acc). Going through gloomers path, I find that every spawn is 1 level higher than usual (no I did not level) and they are significantly tougher, hitting fairly often where everything before missed almost always (which is how it should be, I am stacking avoidance stats). But, they are spiders and wolves, so it's manageable, then enter the ratkin spawn, holy crap I nearly lost my ironman on them several times. The ratkin archers did not miss once despite being debuffed to the nines (-13 ranged acc against my 34 dodge Selen) and the deathkin didn't miss either. He hit for 400-500 a pop and all the other ratkin were doing 350-450 (an archer shot Vincent for 435, I almost cried because I thought my ironman was done right there, he had 21 health left). My point is that these spawns are significantly tougher than almost anything else I faced (granted I have noticed some really tough Orc spawns in bone pass, one of the savages hit Kincaid for 500), are some of the spawns scaled differently than all the other episode 3 content? Cause quite frankly that ratkin spawn was way too tough, the bowmen and mercs I could kill but they dodged lots, the deathkin was 90% miss despite being cumulatively down 17 dodge and 5 parry and my guys having max hit stats (dex/str), max skill (blade/mace) and average about +32 acc (7 of those being weapon acc dice). If every fight was like that I would play this game on normal because that felt like a losing fight despite me doing nothing wrong.

[Kanly]

I agree. That particular spawn took me way off guard and was way tougher than the surrounding ones.

[krakun]

Each map has a minimum and maximum level for the mobs. On Normal the game then tries to give you mobs which are 1 level above you, keeping min/max in mind. So maybe that's why you're seeing mobs +2 above you. You can go clear another area and come back if it gets too hairy.
Personally I find the call of that shiny Hearbeats of Summer is too hard to resist (I gave it to Vraes, of all people), and I tolerate some deaths to go and get it.

[phaze]

A few deaths is not acceptable for ironman groups unfortunately.

I had the same experience with that battle. Enemy levels jump in some areas, leaving people totally unprepared.

I've run into enemies that are 6 levels higher and are utterly deadly, even if a trash mob like spiders. The ratkin group made me backpedal due to the outrageous accuracy and damage. Even spiders can reduce an avoidance Kincaid with high sure parry to dust, having seen 4-6 consecutive hits despite parry in the 20s and dodge in the upper 30s.

In any new level, I've learned to check enemy level all the time as the danger fluctuates.

[fallen]

The best idea when entering new territory is to check on monster levels in the detail box. Levels are generally organized within a subquest - for example, all the level min & max for the Storm Brothers content is very close together. This means you can try to go visit the Storm Brothers "too early." Same idea with the Underforge, if you go there directly as your first action in E2, you might arrive "too early" and find it harder than it could be if you found some other leveling opportunities first.

[Swami]

May 15, 2015 9:18:15 GMT -5 fallen said:

The best idea when entering new territory is to check on monster levels in the detail box. Levels are generally organized within a subquest - for example, all the level min & max for the Storm Brothers content is very close together. This means you can try to go visit the Storm Brothers "too early." Same idea with the Underforge, if you go there directly as your first action in E2, you might arrive "too early" and find it harder than it could be if you found some other leveling opportunities first.

Would it be possible to add the area level range to the display you get when you enter a region? If you are playing Ironman, checking the level on the monster might already be too late.

[matrim]

I'm certain that certain monster spawns just scale to be harder. On top of the added level, these mobs get more acc, damage, and avoidance. I was fighting level 33 stuff in sea road the first time you go through it (Volpa free version with what I assume is a level 33 cap) and those spawns hit more often and harder than the crag peaks spawns who were level 36. The places I have noticed the "harder" monster spawns are Bone Pass (try fighting the orcs on the side at level 30+, they are just plain ridiculous), Sea Road (first time), Crag's Peak (only the 3-4 spawns if you head directly west as you enter from Brunehorn, the rest of the zone was "normal", note that none of the tougher spawns had Volpa in them), and Gloomer's Path. The rest of the episode 3 stuff that I have encountered has been what I would call normal. I don't know how you have the monster stats organized but the difference is really large here, these tough spawns hit me more than when I am cursed with a Volpa shaman curse so I can only assume they have 15-20+ more acc dice to work with. Maybe there is an error somewhere that makes ALL their dice strong or something? That might account for the difference. Also, a lot of the episode 2 content (zones like the roads that lead to the forward camps of the city of dead, Druid zones, any of the krete questing areas, etc...) also have the "tougher" scaling but it is watered down because of the low level cap. It's there for sure though, those krete archers hit me more consistently than Volpa hunters 7 levels higher than them (my dodge stat, evasion, and dex have been pretty static during episode 3) and while krete might have better acc can they have better acc than something that much higher level than them? Also not sure if it's intended but some of the krete trash in these tougher spawns are dang hard to hit, having more evasion than Volpa Shamen 7 levels higher than them (tougher to approximate because my acc has improved incrementally through episode 3).

[fallen]

matrim - yes, you will definitley see that as you move deeper into any quest arc and approach the end, the level caps shift upwards. The end of the Underforge is harder than the beginning, on purpose. Same with the Fang subquest and all the rest.

[matrim]

fallen - To be clear I am not referring to deeper zones in quest arcs, I would definitely expect (and indeed enjoy) a bigger challenge as you progress through a quest. The stuff in certain zones is just plain tougher and the zones I am talking about are transition zones (Bone Pass, Sea Road 1st time, etc...). The monsters in these zones are significantly tougher than any other mobs anywhere. They have 1-2 more levels (right now they are level 39 when the "normal" spawns are level 37, I am level 33 on nightmare) and have wildly better stats (I am talking 15-20 more accuracy dice, 150 more top end damage, and what I can only guess is 10ish more avoidance dice), more than the level difference would account for. The only saving grace of these spawns is that the vast majority are trash, spiders or wolves. The Ratkin spawn at the end of Gloomer's Path serves as a great wake up call as to how much tougher these spawns are though. I am serious when I say those Ratkin got about 7 shots off at me that were not sure parried and 6 of them hit, AND sure parry was eaten every hit guaranteed (i don't remember the exact number of rounds the fight went but my buffs were on 3 turn countdown and they last 15 rounds, but the first few rounds I spent retreating after the deathkin almost 1 shot me). With the way these ratkin were hitting any spawn where I had to face more than 3 archers would be a guaranteed death, at least the ratkin only have 6 range, I tremble to think of a krete spawn like this where the archers can launch volleys at you from almost anywhere on the battlefield.

[matrim]

The only monster I can use as a direct comparison is an ice wolf. These are found in Bone Pass, the zone leading to the Storm Brothers, and throughout the Fang subquest. The level 34 ice wolves in Bone Pass hit more often, had more dodge, and did more damage with every hit than the level 34 ice wolves in the Storm Brothers quest or the Fang quest. Same monster, same level, wildly different stats. This is not level difference, these spawns have way better stats regardless of level. I wish a had screen shot the damage of the ice wolf because the game communicates those numbers and the level 34 ice wolf in Bone Pass did more top end damage than its identically levelled counterpart in any of the other zones.

[anrdaemon]

The general point is that spawns are largely random, apart from very few predefined scripted battles.
You may get better, or you may get worse. And it all is subjective. I've found Volpas rather weak against massive damage output of 3 AP bow.

[fallen]

May 15, 2015 12:25:57 GMT -5 matrim said:

The only monster I can use as a direct comparison is an ice wolf. These are found in Bone Pass, the zone leading to the Storm Brothers, and throughout the Fang subquest. The level 34 ice wolves in Bone Pass hit more often, had more dodge, and did more damage with every hit than the level 34 ice wolves in the Storm Brothers quest or the Fang quest. Same monster, same level, wildly different stats. This is not level difference, these spawns have way better stats regardless of level. I wish a had screen shot the damage of the ice wolf because the game communicates those numbers and the level 34 ice wolf in Bone Pass did more top end damage than its identically levelled counterpart in any of the other zones.

Ah, yes. This is to be expected. A monster with the same level is not always the same monster. They all have variants, and again as you move through different sub-quest arcs, different variants are employed.

[matrim]

I don't want it to sound like I am complaining, that is not the point, I immensely enjoy this game and this is just something I have noticed. I would expect that identical monsters of identical level should be identical. These ice wolves in Bone Pass hit noticeably more (if the difference was small then randomness could be attributed but I am talking a 3% chance to hit with the Fang quest ones compared to a 40% chance with the Bone Pass ones), dodge more (I miss the Bone Pass wolves 1/3 times but the others I hit almost always, don't have numbers but I have definitely killed 3 ice wolves with 1 ap weapons without missing once, so talking 13+ hits without a miss. This has happened on more than 1 occasion), and just plain hit harder (again no screen shots of the numbers but they definitely hit harder...I was hit enough to get a sense of their average damage) than their identically levelled counterparts in the other zones. The monsters of these spawns have skewed stats compared to the other mobs, there is just no way randomness can account of the difference I have seen.

[matrim]

Well that answers my question, I was not expecting variants. Just so you know the zones I am talking about have way tougher monsters than anywhere else (again, I get hit a ton in those zones, it's disconcerting after being so effective against the Volpa and Orcs in the Fang and Storm Brothers quest) and they have at least 15 more accuracy dice to work with. If this is intended then it is diabolical indeed Trese Brothers, I commend you! These spawns always have me wondering if it is safe to run in or are these going to be the tough version that hit me all the time. Keeps me on my toes!

[fallen]

matrim - sorry it took me so long to see what you were getting at. The layers of monster variation, level variation, scaling variation run deep in Heroes of Steel