New TP Upgrade Pricing Proposal

[Cory Trese]

+5 TP HP $50
+10 TP HP $100
+15 TP HP $150


+20 SP $200
+60 SP $500
+100 SP $1000


Defense 1 $100
Defense 2 $150
Defense 3 $200

[En1gma]

Muuuuuuuch nicer. I would certainly start using them at this price, especially the SP upgrades!

[ntsheep]

Looks ok, have you play tested it yet or is that up to us. So far in my repeated plays where I've been trying out the upgrades. I've found a few places where they seem to help and it may be possible to still beat the turn goal.

[Cory Trese]

Jun 15, 2015 13:32:18 GMT -5 ntsheep said:

Looks ok, have you play tested it yet or is that up to us. So far in my repeated plays where I've been trying out the upgrades. I've found a few places where they seem to help and it may be possible to still beat the turn goal.

I've played a few hours with them at this price level, as well as a higher and lower price point.

Each TP can support between 0 and 4 upgrades, so it is possible to have some TPs on maps that cannot be upgraded, or can be upgraded heavily. That will give the player more options and variation on bigger maps.

I'm also repricing the Ordinance, which seems to have an even bigger impact.

Regarding the +SP ones ... my logic is that on average the game's maps last 18 turns.

You should be able to recoup your investment in just over 9 turns.

I like the $50 price point for +HP because it is an easy, cheap thing to drop on the TP if you aren't certain about your ability to hold the perimeter.

[ntsheep]

Cool, can't wait to test it out. Hurry with P3, but don't overwork yourself to hard ok

[bobc]

Nice. Especially liking the cheaper +HP and defence since they also give the flexability to try and hold the TP with fewer troopers so you can focus on the primary target.

[contributor]

First thought, this is almost too cheap, but the last thing I would expect from Cory Trese is something completely unbalance. So I'll just have to take your word for it and give it a try. I'm looking forward to it.

What about Buff Resupplies and some of the other TP abilities?

[Kanly]

I think the costs of the SP upgrades look spot on. The defense and the HP may be a touch too cheap but will definitely test them out.

BTW Cory Trese the last game I played I bought the 100 SP upgrade and it increased my SP gain to 100 instead of increasing it by 100. Is this a bug or intended?

[slayernz]

Still concerned about the SP bonuses ...

+20 SP $200
+60 SP $500
+100 SP $1000

Either the +60 SP should be $600 ... or the +100 SP should be $800.

+20 SP = $10 per 1 SP bonus
+60 SP = $8.33 per 1 SP bonus
+100 Sp = $10 per 1 SP bonus?

Bearing in mind the 18 turn average, take the following scenario.

Turn 0 - start. You have 300 SP.
Turn 1-2 Get to first TP. Capture TP (assumes not Xeno owned)
Turn 3 Upgrade to bonus +20 SP. Now you have 160 SP (300 SP + 60 for turn - 200 for upgrade)
Turn 4 you have 320 SP
Turn 5 you have 400 SP
Turn 6 you have 480 SP
Turn 7 you have 560 SP. You purchase the +60 bonus. End of turn you have 60 SP. (Total new production = 140)
Turn 8 you have 200 SP
Turn 9 you have 340 SP
Turn 10 you have 500 SP
Turn 11 you have 640 SP
Turn 12 you have 780 SP
Turn 13 you have 920 SP
* you have now recovered the cost of buying the +20 SP bonus. Cool!
Turn 14 you have 1060 SP. YAY, you can buy the +100. Down to 60 SP but generating 240 SP
Turn 15 you have 300 SP
* you have now recovered the cost of buying the +60 SP bonus. Awesome!
Turn 16 you have 540 SP (first chance to buy a soldier!). Even a recruit will pull you back to 140 SP remaining
Turn 17 you have 380 SP, ... etc.
...
Turn 24 you finally have built up enough SP to recover the cost of the +100.

The problem with the above approach is that you have had to focus solely on getting the upgrades, and it took until turn 16 before you could actually do anything in the game.

If you invest in squad members or other upgrades any time prior, it eats into your upgrade strategy. Results - if you are ever planning on upgrading to the +100 (at 1000 SP), you'll either only get it right at the end of the mission (probably closer to turn 18 - 20 at the earliest), or you'll have got it slightly earlier, but been overwhelmed by the hoard of readily-spawning Xenos.

Wait, you say. Why did you waste your time with the +20 and +60 upgrades? Because if you were just relying on the 60SP per turn from that TP, you'd be waiting 12 turns, but would be at turn 15 because it still took you 3 turns to capture the TP in the first place


For the bonuses ... maybe this approach

+20 SP = $200 ($10 per +1 SP)
+60 SP = $500 ($8.3 per +1 SP)
+100 SP = $750 ($7.5 per +1 SP)

Oooooor maybe I'm just overthinking it and we should give it a go in P3 before getting all excited and stuff

[slayernz]

Oh oh .. and Cory Trese - it's not to say that I don't like the rest of your adjustments in costings. I think that they would make the upgrades waaaaaaaaaay useful and you'd be very keen.

You could then also need the engineer to be able to remove a particular upgrade so that you could open up an upgrade slot for something more powerful.

[ntsheep]

slayernz, you make some good points with your scenario, but I think the fatal flaw is you're only using one TP. In a level where you can capture more, you total SP gain per turn is increased. I just got done playing level 3 and started off buying the +5 upgrade and then the next turn brought out another Knight. I proceeded to capture two more TP's and by the end of the level had got 9 veterans deployed and beat it in 18 turns for the bonus.

Level 4 after that you only get one TP and you start out with 800 SP. Beginning of turn 2, the best thing to do is bring out 2 Scouts to make bee lines for the other artifacts. This level fits with your example as a "why bother" with upgrades.

+1 for the Engineer ability to remove upgrades, that would be cool and fit in with long turn count levels where you may need to change tactics mid way.

[Cory Trese]

Maybe a +SP upgrade is just dumb ...?

I was balancing for the average number of TP, which probably doesn't hold out for single TP levels or for ones where you'll have 4.

Giving the player the option to be weaker early and stronger later (when the SP starts piling up) seems like an attractive option -- and some players might enjoy building squads that excelled at this smaller team size approach.

Your turn by turn analysis definitely shows some weaknesses.

[slayernz]

ntsheep, I kept the scenario simple, not taking into account the additional TPs that you could capture. The reason is that I was focusing on the payback period of the upgrades. Sure, you could go and capture more TP's, and expand your squad to 9 lowly bad-asses, but then you'd still not really be in a position to buy a 1000SP upgrade until late-stage. If the payback period for that upgrade is 10 turns, then would you bother, because you're conscious that the end of the mission is imminent?

I guess if you had more SP than you knew what to do with, then it could be a good thing to buy. Then again, if you had that situation, then maybe you don't need it in the first place

NEW BRAIN FART COMING IN ...

NOW if the upgrades to SP bonus was somehow networked into your TPs ... that would make it much more worth it!
That is ... if you have a +20SP upgrade bonus, and had 1TP, then you'd get +20 per turn. If you then acquired a 2nd TP, you'd get +40 per turn. Acquire a third TP, and you get +60 per turn!

That would give you the incentive for buying the SP bonus upgrade (even a really expensive one), along with pushing for expansion to new TPs.

Ooh ... that would be an awesome brain fart reality.

[Cory Trese]

I dunno, maybe they just don't work.

[ntsheep]

Awesome cat pic slayernz. I understand you were just giving a basic process of cost vs return and it was very good. Networking upgrades would be neat.