Post by Kanly on Jun 15, 2015 15:07:14 GMT -5
First of all, I just want to thank the TBs for making a great game. It is extremely polished for an alpha, and was a blast to play. This post is just some of my thoughts about the strength and weaknesses of each class, and a little about gameplay. I apologize if there are typos or incomplete thoughts - I'm writing this on my phone because work is slow today.
These are all merely my opinions from how I experienced and chose to play the game. I'm definitely not looking for an in-depth reply; this is just feedback.
Almost all of my testing has been on easy/normal/demanding. In my experience this is the level that the majority of people will play at. I prefer to play at harder difficulty levels, but feel that feedback at this level would be slightly more beneficial at this point.
Captain - I enjoyed playing a melee captain. They do a lot of damage, and with a point in warriors wrath, the added mobility helps immensely. However; I've found a pistoleer based captain to be the most effective. The crit from honing and arc fire stack nicely, and being able to attack from range without fear of a counter attack is just too nice to pass up. Being able to attack from range effectively also helps contribute towards achieving the bonuses on each level.
Because most of the time xenos ignore templars in favor of attacking TPs, I feel that a defensively built captain with a shield gives up too much versatility for the added defense.
Soldier - Great class that shines at long-range defense with Overwatch, which is their best talent by a good margin (I think it is the best talent in the game). Having a soldier or two with Overwatch is pretty much mandatory; effective use of this talent means the difference between breezing through a level or struggling.
Going for close in fighting is fun but a bit riskier because of the shorter range, though I've found it to be well worth it. Going for leader in the ranks for the buffs is tempting, but I find that giving up the pure damage of attack talents is just not worth it. I would consider building a buff specialized soldier for a tertiary soldier/Neptune on a large map with many TPs.
Their biggest weakness (although it's not a very big one) is the lack of a single target attack. Shredding fire is nice to fill this gap, but it lacks range and I might miss added accuracy at higher levels.
I haven't tried grenades with them yet, because I feel that the limit of three is a bit constricting at the higher levels. I'd like to see this upped to five at the highest level. Investing 10 points should reward more than 3 attacks, however strong they might be.
Engineer - Sentry turret is the most powerful engineer talent by far. Each one gives a mini Overwatch, allowing the engineer to help guard wide open areas. If they are placed side by side in a three tile wide gap, they can effectively create a wall with a sniper scout or hydra in the middle. My favorite build thus far is to go heavy into Sentry turret and then go into fortify position. The later meshes extremely well with crit built captains, scouts and berserks.
Heat sink seems nigh useless to me at lower levels. My engineers tend to run the hottest and there is no way they could take the heat from somebody else. That said, running an engineer with heat sink 8 (aoe heat removal) could potentially allow for some very powerful teams that are designed to overheat regularly.
Repair TP. With the way that the xenos tend to tunnel on a TP, it is often a better idea to recapture them than it is to spend talents on learning how to repair them. One way to help this issue is to spend SP on upgrades - but they are clearly overpriced atm. I know that ordnance cost adjustments are on the way, but an alternative way you could fix this is to have the repair TP ability actually increase the HP of a TP up to five beyond its max. That would make repair a much more attractive talent.
Scout - Highly mobile class with long range. I've found the sniper specialized scout to be the most effective for most cases. Head shot and field of focus make for a devastating sniper. My primary choice to back-up a soldier on defense with either headshot or crippling fire.
Overdrive and null field make for a fun playstyle but I always seem to have major heat issues when I try to run one unsupported behind enemy lines. Having a stealth based scout is pretty important to making the speed bonuses comfortably.
Overall a pretty strong class, but the use of open fire may trip up many new players. Yes, you can use open fire on the move, but for the most part I find it a bit redundant given the power of headshot. I find myself banking the first points until I can unlock headshot.
They have no aoe, but this is a completely fine trade-off because of their single target strength.
As a side note I'd love to use the needle guns, but I can't justify giving up the penetration unless we can switch weapons in combat (we can't do this can we?). As you level up and you face tougher xenos like Goliaths, I've found they just can't keep up and become a liability.
Berserk - I never got into a groove with the berserk class, likely because the talent that was the most attractive to me, berserk Slash, caused the game to crash. I love the amount of single target damage they put out, but feel that their lack of mobility limits them as a class, especially when going for speed goals.
I tried a defensively built berserk, and they were really freaking tough...when they were attacked. Often though, the xenos would just bypass them to attack the TP. This could either be remedied by changing the code on xeno targeting, or could be addressed by a talent overhaul, such as the one I suggest below.
I would really like Indomitable Defense to be changed somewhat. Ideally it would work like Overwatch, only the box would be centered on your templar. Anything that enters the three spaces in front of your templar would automatically be attacked. This would make the berserk much more of an attractive option to guard a TP, and would lessen the heavy dependence on soldiers. It would make a berserk a legitimate choice for guarding something other than a passage that is 1 tile wide. Alternatively it could give you a percentage chance to counterattack before the xenos get their attack in?
As with the soldier, I think the amount of grenades available should be upped to 5.
Paladin - My least played class, although I would probably play around with one more on NMI. It's really nice to have the flexibility of a healer, but often I'd rather have more ranged damage than a healer if I can't have both. This usually leads me to choose another scout or soldier over a paladin. I would rather have a more solid defense than a healer with paltry damage contribution. They have neither strong single target damage nor an aoe.
They are quite the beasts with their defensive buffs though they suffer from the same lack of xeno aggro that berserks do. I've possible remedy would be to have one of their attacks covered into an aoe ability that makes all the targeted xenos attack them. An aoe taunt ability basically.
Neptune - Because they have Overwatch, they mostly share the same niche as the soldier class. The difference is that they give up team buffs for more personal damage. Like the soldier, they excel at defense with Overwatch and stabilize platform. They do remedy the greatest weakness of the soldier class: single target damage. Their single target damage is amazing with concentrated fire.
As far as aoe, I favor deadly burst over full auto, as I rarely have enough xenos in a concentrated area to justify the heat cost for the extra aoe.
The weakness of the Neptune class is that you will get them much later and at a higher cost. When we get to them organically in the game, I'm guessing my soldiers will be quite strong already. Will they be worth the cost at that point to invest for a slightly stronger soldier later on?
I feel Neptunes really lack distinctiveness as a class and as a result will be ignored by many players. I think they need a really iconic ability of their own like a long range aoe or something like mines.
Hydra - I really had a lot of fun with this class, but they aren't quite finished yet. They are my second choice to back up a soldier or neptune behind scout because their field of fire doesn't interfere with the soldiers targeting of Overwatch, but they are still ranged, and can sit back behind the front lines. In aoe heavy situations having a hydra mixed with a Neptune makes for much delight.
The direct damage from incinerator is really nice, as is hungry flames. Napalm charge is nice for the initial cast. Obviously, napalm lance isn't really in yet. Residual fire is also clearly underpowered at the moment.
I find their debuff to be not very useful in normal, because I would rather kill something than weaken it and leave it to attack me on the next turn. If anything is that close, and lives, all my TPs are belong to them.
What's the difference between hellstorm and hungry flames?
These are all merely my opinions from how I experienced and chose to play the game. I'm definitely not looking for an in-depth reply; this is just feedback.
Almost all of my testing has been on easy/normal/demanding. In my experience this is the level that the majority of people will play at. I prefer to play at harder difficulty levels, but feel that feedback at this level would be slightly more beneficial at this point.
Captain - I enjoyed playing a melee captain. They do a lot of damage, and with a point in warriors wrath, the added mobility helps immensely. However; I've found a pistoleer based captain to be the most effective. The crit from honing and arc fire stack nicely, and being able to attack from range without fear of a counter attack is just too nice to pass up. Being able to attack from range effectively also helps contribute towards achieving the bonuses on each level.
Because most of the time xenos ignore templars in favor of attacking TPs, I feel that a defensively built captain with a shield gives up too much versatility for the added defense.
Soldier - Great class that shines at long-range defense with Overwatch, which is their best talent by a good margin (I think it is the best talent in the game). Having a soldier or two with Overwatch is pretty much mandatory; effective use of this talent means the difference between breezing through a level or struggling.
Going for close in fighting is fun but a bit riskier because of the shorter range, though I've found it to be well worth it. Going for leader in the ranks for the buffs is tempting, but I find that giving up the pure damage of attack talents is just not worth it. I would consider building a buff specialized soldier for a tertiary soldier/Neptune on a large map with many TPs.
Their biggest weakness (although it's not a very big one) is the lack of a single target attack. Shredding fire is nice to fill this gap, but it lacks range and I might miss added accuracy at higher levels.
I haven't tried grenades with them yet, because I feel that the limit of three is a bit constricting at the higher levels. I'd like to see this upped to five at the highest level. Investing 10 points should reward more than 3 attacks, however strong they might be.
Engineer - Sentry turret is the most powerful engineer talent by far. Each one gives a mini Overwatch, allowing the engineer to help guard wide open areas. If they are placed side by side in a three tile wide gap, they can effectively create a wall with a sniper scout or hydra in the middle. My favorite build thus far is to go heavy into Sentry turret and then go into fortify position. The later meshes extremely well with crit built captains, scouts and berserks.
Heat sink seems nigh useless to me at lower levels. My engineers tend to run the hottest and there is no way they could take the heat from somebody else. That said, running an engineer with heat sink 8 (aoe heat removal) could potentially allow for some very powerful teams that are designed to overheat regularly.
Repair TP. With the way that the xenos tend to tunnel on a TP, it is often a better idea to recapture them than it is to spend talents on learning how to repair them. One way to help this issue is to spend SP on upgrades - but they are clearly overpriced atm. I know that ordnance cost adjustments are on the way, but an alternative way you could fix this is to have the repair TP ability actually increase the HP of a TP up to five beyond its max. That would make repair a much more attractive talent.
Scout - Highly mobile class with long range. I've found the sniper specialized scout to be the most effective for most cases. Head shot and field of focus make for a devastating sniper. My primary choice to back-up a soldier on defense with either headshot or crippling fire.
Overdrive and null field make for a fun playstyle but I always seem to have major heat issues when I try to run one unsupported behind enemy lines. Having a stealth based scout is pretty important to making the speed bonuses comfortably.
Overall a pretty strong class, but the use of open fire may trip up many new players. Yes, you can use open fire on the move, but for the most part I find it a bit redundant given the power of headshot. I find myself banking the first points until I can unlock headshot.
They have no aoe, but this is a completely fine trade-off because of their single target strength.
As a side note I'd love to use the needle guns, but I can't justify giving up the penetration unless we can switch weapons in combat (we can't do this can we?). As you level up and you face tougher xenos like Goliaths, I've found they just can't keep up and become a liability.
Berserk - I never got into a groove with the berserk class, likely because the talent that was the most attractive to me, berserk Slash, caused the game to crash. I love the amount of single target damage they put out, but feel that their lack of mobility limits them as a class, especially when going for speed goals.
I tried a defensively built berserk, and they were really freaking tough...when they were attacked. Often though, the xenos would just bypass them to attack the TP. This could either be remedied by changing the code on xeno targeting, or could be addressed by a talent overhaul, such as the one I suggest below.
I would really like Indomitable Defense to be changed somewhat. Ideally it would work like Overwatch, only the box would be centered on your templar. Anything that enters the three spaces in front of your templar would automatically be attacked. This would make the berserk much more of an attractive option to guard a TP, and would lessen the heavy dependence on soldiers. It would make a berserk a legitimate choice for guarding something other than a passage that is 1 tile wide. Alternatively it could give you a percentage chance to counterattack before the xenos get their attack in?
As with the soldier, I think the amount of grenades available should be upped to 5.
Paladin - My least played class, although I would probably play around with one more on NMI. It's really nice to have the flexibility of a healer, but often I'd rather have more ranged damage than a healer if I can't have both. This usually leads me to choose another scout or soldier over a paladin. I would rather have a more solid defense than a healer with paltry damage contribution. They have neither strong single target damage nor an aoe.
They are quite the beasts with their defensive buffs though they suffer from the same lack of xeno aggro that berserks do. I've possible remedy would be to have one of their attacks covered into an aoe ability that makes all the targeted xenos attack them. An aoe taunt ability basically.
Neptune - Because they have Overwatch, they mostly share the same niche as the soldier class. The difference is that they give up team buffs for more personal damage. Like the soldier, they excel at defense with Overwatch and stabilize platform. They do remedy the greatest weakness of the soldier class: single target damage. Their single target damage is amazing with concentrated fire.
As far as aoe, I favor deadly burst over full auto, as I rarely have enough xenos in a concentrated area to justify the heat cost for the extra aoe.
The weakness of the Neptune class is that you will get them much later and at a higher cost. When we get to them organically in the game, I'm guessing my soldiers will be quite strong already. Will they be worth the cost at that point to invest for a slightly stronger soldier later on?
I feel Neptunes really lack distinctiveness as a class and as a result will be ignored by many players. I think they need a really iconic ability of their own like a long range aoe or something like mines.
Hydra - I really had a lot of fun with this class, but they aren't quite finished yet. They are my second choice to back up a soldier or neptune behind scout because their field of fire doesn't interfere with the soldiers targeting of Overwatch, but they are still ranged, and can sit back behind the front lines. In aoe heavy situations having a hydra mixed with a Neptune makes for much delight.
The direct damage from incinerator is really nice, as is hungry flames. Napalm charge is nice for the initial cast. Obviously, napalm lance isn't really in yet. Residual fire is also clearly underpowered at the moment.
I find their debuff to be not very useful in normal, because I would rather kill something than weaken it and leave it to attack me on the next turn. If anything is that close, and lives, all my TPs are belong to them.
What's the difference between hellstorm and hungry flames?
