Heroes of Steel v4.1.25 Released!

[fallen]

Oct 12, 2015 3:08:57 GMT -5 Wabbit said:

If you ever do a HoS 2 please add a fifth char slot for extra play and tactics options...

Agreed. HoS2 (Legends of Steel) would definitely have a flexible team rule.

[Wabbit]

Awesome - thanks, you guys are doing a great job with the game(s), and on the board have the right balance of friendliness and professionalism. - Respect

[anrdaemon]

Oct 11, 2015 13:07:48 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

We made the change based on data collected by Google based on how people are using the game's interface. Our metrics indicate that removing the Talents button would be a mistake -- it is this button that gives players access to the re-ordering functions.

While I agree with your judgment about Talents button, do you account in your metrics for the fact that
1. The UI layout itself could provoke certain usage patterns (and it is not necessarily a bad thing!), and
2. Not all actions that are (somewhat) hard to reach need to be made more accessible.

While I very much appreciate the scrolling talents panel, I would gladly trade it back for explicit cancel button.

And the new party panel is a very much a showstopper. I dread to think that I would need to look at it every time I'm going to switch characters. Even worse that it is now the only possible way to change characters on mobile devices.

Can't you make improvements without removing features? Forget I asked it. You apparently can. The first iteration of party panel was just spot on. Plan looking, in line with the rest of the interface. Then you added AP counters and for some reason decided to make it higher. Well, it became just a little weirder, but still it was melding nicely with the rest of the UI. But now… I just can't force myself to start the game. It is simply unbearable.

//sorry for the lots of edits… finger joints being nasty, can't hit right buttons from the first time.

[fallen]

@wabbit - thank you very much. I hope you'll leave a review on the games to help share the good word.

[fallen]

Oct 12, 2015 20:02:35 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Oct 11, 2015 13:07:48 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

We made the change based on data collected by Google based on how people are using the game's interface. Our metrics indicate that removing the Talents button would be a mistake -- it is this button that gives players access to the re-ordering functions.

While I agree with your jedgement about Talnets button, do you account in your metrict for the fact that
1. The UI layout itself could provoke certain usage patterns, and
2. Not all actions that are (somewhat) hard to reach need to be made more accessible.

While I very much appreciate the scrolling talents panel, I would galdly trade it back for explicit cancel button.

And the new party panel is a very much a showstopper. I dread to think that I would need to look at it every time I'm going to switch characters. Even worse that it is now the only possible way to change characters on mobile devices.

Can't you make improvements without removing features? Forget I asked it. You apparently can. The first iteration of party panel was just spot on. Plan looking, in line with the rest of the interface. Then you added AP counters and for some reason decided to make it higher. Well, it became just a little weirder, but still it was melding nicely with the rest of the UI. But now… I just can't force myself to start the game. It is simply unbearable.

I'm sorry that our changes have caused you to stop playing Heroes of Steel.

We'll keep improving. That does mean changes, tho.

[Cory Trese]

anrdaemon - you can change characters by tapping on the map.

We take all factors into account when studying the metrics.

[fallen]

Oct 12, 2015 20:02:35 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

And the new party panel is a very much a showstopper. I dread to think that I would need to look at it every time I'm going to switch characters. Even worse that it is now the only possible way to change characters on mobile devices.

Sorry, I must have missed something. Why is the "new" character panel a show stopper? The only thing that changed was the art.

[anrdaemon]

Not only art. It is significantly bigger now, not aligning to any other UI elements, and is overlaying the left side controls.

The old UI was with a tendency to get out of the way and focus player's attention to the task at hands.
New one is a diametral opposite, it focusing player's attention on UI itself, not the game, and constantly getting under the hands.
Multiple times now I cast a wrong spell because I didn't notice it wasn't selected properly on the bar.

In short, return old talent selection behavior and old party panel.
And provide a way to get rid of the abusive arrows when un/glomming the party.

[mataeus]

Cory Trese, fallen:
Stuff I like
The scrolling talents list is awesome. God I hated having to go into the menu to manually find my lock-picking skill whenever I left battle to loot chests!
Being able to still go into the menu to reorder talents, so the scrolling list is exactly how you want it? Awesome
anrdaemon: You are aware that cancelling a talent is as simple as re-pressing on it, right? You tap to select, tap to deselect. That's even easier and more intuitive than a cancel button, which takes up extra space providing that exact same function...

Stuff I don't like, with suggestions on change
The glom/unglom arrows! What the heck is that!? It's hideous! They're huge, they're unnecessary, they're distracting and by the nine,they're bright bloody blue! It looks like they were lifted straight out of Star Traders: Empires. The aesthetic is totally jarring!

The panel placement. I have some ideas here which I think are pretty good (if I say so myself).
Firstly, the 4-square button is completely unnecessary. You can select character by simply tapping them on the screen. This is intuitive, easy and fast - there's no need whatsoever for the party button to exist. Simply place the auto-buff button there... No need for a huge, opaque wooden panel to cover up the bottom third of the screen just to show four character faces and a hidden button. Ditch the whole thing, and just have the auto-buff button with a nice icon in place of the 4-square party button.

Now, create a nice icon for the 'items' button - a knapsack perhaps - And place that above my proposed auto-buff button. Until long press is integrated, change the info button to text and move it to the right hand side, where the 'item' button originally was.

As it is, the left-hand UI - The combination of the grey and the wooden-look - is pretty hideous! Especially the way it sticks out in a big square. I was never a fan of the brushed-steel 'swoop', but it's better than that brown box sticking out of the character portrait.

I must make you aware THESE ARE ONLY MY SUGGESTIONS, even though they sound like I'm barking orders in an entitled fashion at you

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to bark orders, but remember that we work for all of the players who enjoy the game, not just ones with forum accounts.

Even before the addition of auto-buff, the ability to quickly check the party's HP and SP was one of the most used features in the game. The average player would view this suggestion with hostility.

We will include your suggestions, and the suggestions of everyone who has posted and e-mailed, as we continue to update these UI from several years ago.

[fallen]

Oct 13, 2015 6:01:38 GMT -5 mataeus said:

Cory Trese, fallen:
The panel placement. I have some ideas here which I think are pretty good (if I say so myself).
Firstly, the 4-square button is completely unnecessary. You can select character by simply tapping them on the screen. This is intuitive, easy and fast - there's no need whatsoever for the party button to exist. Simply place the auto-buff button there... No need for a huge, opaque wooden panel to cover up the bottom third of the screen just to show four character faces and a hidden button. Ditch the whole thing, and just have the auto-buff button with a nice icon in place of the 4-square party button.

Thanks for the feedback. I can't imagine removing the 4 character panel and the HP / SP / AP / MP trackers they provide, and the quick switch functionality. Wow, I can imagine the wave of emails now Looking back, those features have been some of the most highly requested, somewhere right after the scrolling talents panel.

Thanks for the feedback, we'll keep working on improving.

The next update has some improvements to the centering and size of the character list panel.

[mataeus]

Oct 13, 2015 9:01:08 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to bark orders, but remember that we work for all of the players who enjoy the game, not just ones with forum accounts.

Even before the addition of auto-buff, the ability to quickly check the party's HP and SP was one of the most used features in the game. The average player would view this suggestion with hostility.

We will include your suggestions, and the suggestions of everyone who has posted and e-mailed, as we continue to update these UI from several years ago.

I think we are all 'average' players are we not?

On a possibly unrelated note, I believe I'm losing Karma again! Ah well. Id' rather be honest than be liked

[fallen]

mataeus - we get a lot of feedback from a lot of channels. We don't mean to be "groupy" but we see very different requests and thoughts from our Facebook channel vs. the emails we receive every day vs. the forum crew. Over 5 years, and many thousands of touch points, we see patterns. One of those patterns is that forum crew is more hardcore, detail oriented, "above average seriousness" player.

[wascalwywabbit]

I like mataeus' idea of the auto buff button being top-most...

I like the glom arrows, it's a slightly quicker confirm my press registered...

I like the wood, but could use better active talent contrast.

Part of the difficulty of what can be on top is surely the screen size differences of so many devices to support... The upcoming resizing char selection will help with that a bit I think. Long run I'd like all four visible all the time left side, at least on the bigger screens.

Ascetics will always vary by player preferences, maybe have the most popular ui skins part of the game options, wood, stone, metal etc?

[En1gma]

It's always hard, or it can be anyway, when we see things we don't like because they don't fit with our 'vision' of the game. You're right when you say we are the 'hardcore' fans, and when we point out these design elements (me for sure, I can only assume about everyone else...), it's because we REALLY want the game to be the best it can possibly be. A perfect and intuitive AI is an elusive beast to be sure, all we have are suggestions for how to get it there.

For me, and the others putting these suggestions on the board here, it is because as someone who plays these games every day, some of the changes don't make sense. I realize that you have more than just those on the forum to please, I fully get that.

In my ideal world, everything pertaining to Talents would remain on the right-hand side. This allows the player to keep everything in combat (other than switching between characters) on one hand (the right), allowing the other hand to control character selection, movement, and target selection. To be forced to switch back to the left hand to check the talent selected, is a mental process that is jarring to become used to, having played the game in the same manner since its release. The experienced players are likely experiencing the same shock as we are.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, just trying to try and surmise some of the comments here. I fully understand where anrdaemon is coming from, and share most of his concerns, albeit we approach them differently. The new UI isn't enough to push me away from the game entirely, but I have been finding that it is much more difficult to conduct the battles, because the new pattern is confusing and less intuitive for the way I play. I'll adapt how I play, but my suggestion for a return of the 'Next Character' button still stands as the thing that I will miss the most, followed by my want for the Info button to be moved to where the player can reach it with the same hand that selects the Talents themselves.

Your effort to improve your game is ever present, and I'm sure the end product will be great, but for now HoS got a bit tougher to manage. For me.

PS: On a related note, can you please disable the space between the bottom of the talent scroll and the button directly below it? A mis-press on that has sent several soft characters wandering off to the square selected because the UI allows movement to be initiated between the elements...

PPS: Thanks, as always, for your time.