phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368 
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Post by phaze on Dec 4, 2015 9:13:55 GMT -5
I've looked at this numbers and am building a dex based Vraes to test. However, the numbers do not work in Vraes' favor. At max phalanx, he gets 52% range block, plus the 10% shield later in the game, meaning 62% of ranged attacks are blocked. However, 38% of ranged attacks hitting is still far too much damage to take on the chin.
A dex-based Vraes with max BoS and phalanx gives 16 parry, 9 dodge (max phalanx, BoS). On Kincaid, 20 talents points 12 parry/16 dodge (max CF and SP). Kincaid also gets Stealth armor which tips the scale to make a dodge-based Kincaid work. In building a ranged-avoidance Kincaid, doing everything to max dodge stats, there are many points in the game due to leveling curves/special enemies that the ranged avoidance method fails. If Kincaid has trouble pulling this off during the game, a Vraes dodge build will face a steeper hurdle.
Plus, with a dex Vraes, you lose out on strength based weapons, losing a great deal of appeal of Vraes. Additionally, if you wear heavy armor with a negative to evasion stat, you are cutting against the build effectiveness of dodging.
A dex-based Vraes may work...but it is certainly not a given. Kincaid has an easy 10-20 Dodge (including evasion) die over Vraes and still will encounter trouble with dodging range attacks. There may be a point where the combo of phalanx plus high dodge works for Vraes. If you can mitigate the 38% percent of incoming ranged attacks through a reasonable Dodge stat and/or higher armor and HP, it might create play out well, but with my experience of the game, I wouldn't trust it.
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Post by bobc on Dec 4, 2015 10:07:53 GMT -5
This makes pretty interesting reading. I've never bothered analysing the talent builds like this so seeing how the numbers line up between the characters is pretty surprising in places. I prefer playing the original group so I always try to mitigate Vraes's vulnerability to ranged attack with Firestorm and Ranged Onslaught wherever possible.  |
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Post by fallen on Dec 4, 2015 10:25:25 GMT -5
Never tried a Dex-based Vraes, might give that a shot. Str-based has always been so successful on my end.
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Post by En1gma on Dec 4, 2015 10:32:13 GMT -5
Also keep in mind that Kincaid's innate Dex to Dodge ratio is FAR higher than Vraes's. I'm sure John Robinson or fallen could explain the *exact* numbers far better than I, but for every point of Dex, Kincaid's multiplier is much better than big V's |
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Post by anrdaemon on Dec 4, 2015 10:34:53 GMT -5
Never tried a Dex-based Vraes, might give that a shot. Str-based has always been so successful on my end. That's only because spears use Strength... for some reason. Where other polearms based on Dex. |
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Post by En1gma on Dec 4, 2015 10:38:20 GMT -5
I don't think I could give up a Str Vraes...
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368
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Post by phaze on Dec 4, 2015 10:54:13 GMT -5
Their dodge factors are the same. 0.75 for kincaid and vraes both.
I am testing a dex Vraes to max out survivability combined with berserk rage. I WANT to use this talent but it uniquely undercuts the strength of Vraes very, very quickly. The damage potential is insane. I want to create a Vraes with Berserk Rage and an attack talent (Crushing Blow/Ferocity). I think it is possible to have a sturdy Vraes with a dex-based attack using 1 or 2 AP weapons. It would be possible to fully support Crushing Blow with every attack (and possible to support Ferocity with every attack and the right equipment I believe). 7 attacks with 30%+ critical and massive added damage has a potential to be its own area of attack effectively.
The other issue I have with Vraes is spirit and intelligence. With a maxed phalanx and BoS, the amount of spirit used is insane relative to his pool, let alone use attack talents. Kincaid's buffs are more efficient in SP (at least looking at BoS) cost and he has a greater pool of spirit and gains more per level. Even with a supporting Kyera and Sacrifice, Vraes SP use is challenging.
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Post by fallen on Dec 4, 2015 11:24:30 GMT -5
The other issue I have with Vraes is spirit and intelligence. With a maxed phalanx and BoS, the amount of spirit used is insane relative to his pool, let alone use attack talents. Kincaid's buffs are more efficient in SP (at least looking at BoS) cost and he has a greater pool of spirit and gains more per level. Even with a supporting Kyera and Sacrifice, Vraes SP use is challenging. Potions and Sacrifice will definitely keep you going. If you're using Crushing Blow, put on the right combo of SP Drain gear (consider keeping the Heartbeat of Summer) and you should be in the money. |
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Post by En1gma on Dec 4, 2015 11:34:37 GMT -5
My mistake then... I genuinely thought that they were different. I stand corrected |
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368
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Post by phaze on Dec 4, 2015 11:42:28 GMT -5
Vraes is very thirsty. Even with potion and sacrifice support, he takes careful management. Sp drain gear is my plan, but you wade through over half the game to get there.
I have a solid plan for him, but it takes effort to get to the late game.
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Post by En1gma on Dec 4, 2015 12:00:31 GMT -5
He would seriously benefit from an overall reduction in buff costs... I've had groups that have him using well over a full third of his SP pool just in buffs alone... It takes so much time accumulatively to use potions or Sacrifice to bring him back up to full, especially when running a FEROCITY build, where you need him at full or close to it...
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Post by anrdaemon on Dec 4, 2015 12:42:31 GMT -5
One of the reasons I'm not leveling Ferocity. Yet. Just too expensive. One, two rounds top and he's dry. Sacrifice only goes as far as Kyera's mana pool. Which means she's spending all her AP and SP on recharging Vraes, which basically means she's not really contributing to the group at all. In turn, reducing the party to 3 members either way. Or mount a barrel of SP juice on Vraes' back and feed it from that like CIS. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 4, 2015 13:45:37 GMT -5
SP Drain + Sacrifice is only 1AP ... I find the Ferocity 8 build is absolutely decimating enemies in the CoD.
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Post by anrdaemon on Dec 4, 2015 14:12:59 GMT -5
I bet. But before CoD, there's whole prologue and two full chapters.
With Fyona's help, I'm largely managing to finish most of the engagements in ~4 rounds, but Vraes is out of SP by then or before that, and have to either drink or rely on simple punching enemies without much fantasy.
Helps that I'm saving kill shots for Kj and Tamilin (! o.O), who are happened to be behind the other two in exp gains.
We'll see how it pan out, once I'm content with his other skills and attributes, and start increasing his mana pool.
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Post by Cory Trese on Dec 4, 2015 14:21:21 GMT -5
I usually build SS + BR or Juggernaut when playing with Fyona.
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