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Post by fallen on Jan 7, 2016 22:34:08 GMT -5
So Kincaid, Vincent and Selen may gain str gains if using str based weapons, w/thrown, nothing and/or bows secondary, correct? Curious as to why Kincaid, Selen and Vraes aren't gaining from str from duel. Is that just to encourage thrown, bows and 2h more? Thrown, bows, secondary -- nothing. When you are Dual Wielding, you are not able to focus all of your Strength behind the hit. You are moving quickly and coordinating two weapons. |
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Post by En1gma on Jan 7, 2016 22:47:01 GMT -5
You're all looking at it wrong (I'm just kidding!)-- this may FINALLY be my way of increasing the minimum damage on SPEARS!!
Ooohhh you done it now, berserker Vraes you're getting a revisit!
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 7, 2016 23:06:56 GMT -5
So Kincaid, Vincent and Selen may gain str gains if using str based weapons, w/thrown, nothing and/or bows secondary, correct? Curious as to why Kincaid, Selen and Vraes aren't gaining from str from duel. Is that just to encourage thrown, bows and 2h more? Thrown, bows, secondary -- nothing. When you are Dual Wielding, you are not able to focus all of your Strength behind the hit. You are moving quickly and coordinating two weapons. I get that ... I still think 100% for primary makes sense, it's still enough less than 150% to make 2h preferably at times without being so vastly preferred that dual wield Vraes could still be relatively viable. That's my only downside for all these massive updates to the game, dual wield makes much less sense now, and isn't even an option for Tam any more. Still all great improvements, just wish relatively - dual wield, the wizard and, to a lesser degree, Kyera weren't falling behind. PS you can make it up to me tho. More items, new chars, new boost-in whatever.  PPS- I still need to Patreon now that my fam's Christmas vacation is done. I only deal in cash, so need to talk to my wife when her teaching week is over to have an easier way to pay. -No I'm not black-mailing you, just letting you know I haven't forgotten. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 7, 2016 23:15:58 GMT -5
You're all looking at it wrong (I'm just kidding!)-- this may FINALLY be my way of increasing the minimum damage on SPEARS!! Ooohhh you done it now, berserker Vraes you're getting a revisit! But it may help hammers more... |
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Post by En1gma on Jan 7, 2016 23:27:24 GMT -5
Possibly, but the accuracy and Parry are what make Spears so amazing. Before this, ALL (IMO) they had were great accuracy and average Parry, sacrificing overall damage output. Now they can narrow the bands even further, making these even more reliable  |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 7, 2016 23:30:10 GMT -5
Possibly, but the accuracy and Parry are what make Spears so amazing. Before this, ALL (IMO) they had were great accuracy and average Parry, sacrificing overall damage output. Now they can narrow the bands even further, making these even more reliable Maybe your 2h NM, ssk and ssw build... |
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Post by fallen on Jan 7, 2016 23:51:55 GMT -5
I get that ... I still think 100% for primary makes sense, it's still enough less than 150% to make 2h preferably at times without being so vastly preferred that dual wield Vraes could still be relatively viable. That's my only downside for all these massive updates to the game, dual wield makes much less sense now, and isn't even an option for Tam any more. Still all great improvements, just wish relatively - dual wield, the wizard and, to a lesser degree, Kyera weren't falling behind. PS you can make it up to me tho. More items, new chars, new boost-in whatever. PPS- I still need to Patreon now that my fam's Christmas vacation is done. I only deal in cash, so need to talk to my wife when her teaching week is over to have an easier way to pay. -No I'm not black-mailing you, just letting you know I haven't forgotten. This update helps Kyera & Fyona significantly imho. I don't think you are giving Dual Wield enough credit. For example, a 2-H Spear might have +14 Fire Dmg, +3% Critical. If you Dual Wield, find a Sword that has +14 Fire Dmg, +3% Critical. Then find another sword that has +12 Fire Dmg, +6% SP Drain. Considering the ability to combine two weapon effects ... Dual Wield has a huge advantage and is extremely viable. Not to mention the other rules it has in its corner, taking the best of Accuracy & Parry. I look forward to you joining up on Patreon! I just posted the new line art for the update Vraes! |
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Jan 8, 2016 0:22:21 GMT -5
Hmm I would have thought that a narrow damage band would be favoured. Having the narrow band I assume uses less of the items budget so it can be used to raise minimum damage, accuracy or parry. The ideal I would think would be a 1 handed weapon with a d16 rolled. Max Str would ensure you hit the highest number all the time while using no budget on rarely hit higher numbers. But that is just theory and intuition talking, I have not tested anything. The mouse over is now working, I guess I needed to close out steam or something, sorry for the false alarm.
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Post by samopop on Jan 8, 2016 0:24:10 GMT -5
At this time, Talent, Weapon, and Attack Summary screens do not reflect additional Strength Dmg. Still trying to figure out how to do that. I think the most useful place for it to show up is in the info section for a particular attack. For example: before it would have said: Wielding Flanged Mace and Shield for 39 - 65 damage and now it might say: Wielding Flanged Mace and Shield for 52 - 65 damage It is more difficult to add succinctly to the summary stats screen in my opinion (and less directly relevant). |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 8, 2016 0:34:49 GMT -5
Point taken for dual wield, but do dual effects take even when only enough ap for primary? I haven't really checked for that. I had assumed not, that's partly why I was concerned...
Improvements to Kincaid thrown plus str+ pushed dual wield back from preferred for him imo.
Helps offensive focused Fyona more than Kyera... Kyera says "Whaaah! I'm a holy warrior too, I want 150% of my str going for better dmg too. Whaaah!
Wizard is cold and lonely, strange for a fire wizard that everyone loves. :-p
Still, not complaining, just discussing for a fuller picture since my little rabbit brain doesn't always understand.
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Post by algesan on Jan 8, 2016 0:57:48 GMT -5
At this time, Talent, Weapon, and Attack Summary screens do not reflect additional Strength Dmg. Still trying to figure out how to do that. I think the most useful place for it to show up is in the info section for a particular attack. For example: before it would have said: Wielding Flanged Mace and Shield for 39 - 65 damage and now it might say: Wielding Flanged Mace and Shield for 52 - 65 damage It is more difficult to add succinctly to the summary stats screen in my opinion (and less directly relevant). No, this would mess up the math. Take a D6. Add up the possible results of 6+5+4+3+2+1=21 and divide by the number of results (6) and you get the expected value of 3.5, which you can use to find the average damage. Now, use the new rule with STR 3 and it becomes 6+5+4+3+3+3=24, which makes the expected value 4. The expected value of the first equation D27+38 and the second D14+51 would give 52 and 58.5 respectively when it is only 55ish. In the long run, with honest dice, expected value rules. |
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Post by algesan on Jan 8, 2016 1:04:46 GMT -5
I get that ... I still think 100% for primary makes sense, it's still enough less than 150% to make 2h preferably at times without being so vastly preferred that dual wield Vraes could still be relatively viable. That's my only downside for all these massive updates to the game, dual wield makes much less sense now, and isn't even an option for Tam any more. Still all great improvements, just wish relatively - dual wield, the wizard and, to a lesser degree, Kyera weren't falling behind. PS you can make it up to me tho. More items, new chars, new boost-in whatever. PPS- I still need to Patreon now that my fam's Christmas vacation is done. I only deal in cash, so need to talk to my wife when her teaching week is over to have an easier way to pay. -No I'm not black-mailing you, just letting you know I haven't forgotten. This update helps Kyera & Fyona significantly imho. I don't think you are giving Dual Wield enough credit. For example, a 2-H Spear might have +14 Fire Dmg, +3% Critical. If you Dual Wield, find a Sword that has +14 Fire Dmg, +3% Critical. Then find another sword that has +12 Fire Dmg, +6% SP Drain. Considering the ability to combine two weapon effects ... Dual Wield has a huge advantage and is extremely viable. Not to mention the other rules it has in its corner, taking the best of Accuracy & Parry. I look forward to you joining up on Patreon! I just posted the new line art for the update Vraes! The balance issue makes a lot of game sense where your earlier "technical" reason blows since feint with one hand, hammer with other is a common tactic. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 8, 2016 2:29:23 GMT -5
Maximum dmg and soak team of VVFS anyone?
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Jan 8, 2016 3:15:35 GMT -5
What's your build idea for them? Are Fyona and Selen running crowd control or is Vincent?
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 8, 2016 3:35:56 GMT -5
Str weapons, Vraes lore - ssk nm bos, vincent LS EotS FF, may try respeccing Vince for melee @18, Fyona BA RF ZS, Selen PS FB DoS - may keep PS low for some QsD.
Emphasizing -ap for ranged and high dmg enemies - dmg outlay quickly to those enemies doing the most dmg per enemy hp to reduce healing - hopefully DoS helps win stealth.
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