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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 9, 2016 11:24:46 GMT -5
Unless there is a true flaw in the game's RNG, the band doesn't matter, just the expected value. Sure, you can get a string of wimpy hits, but you can get a string of huge crits, too. As long as min damage hits can still score through the soaks, it's all good. My pontificating was about avg gain per hit, not min expected dmg... If you r hitting for better than 200 late game on avg, from high crit rate for example, it's likely possible only well under 10% of hits are gaining any dmg from str. Relative to enemy hp, it is best early game. In absolute gain it is best when the weapon dmg band matches max str. Edit: granted that is assuming basic attacks and defensive gear... From then on it's simply expected min. In sum it matches the needs of the learning curve, but not necessarily wanted excitement, depending on the individual. |
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Post by mushroom on Jan 9, 2016 11:59:09 GMT -5
If anyone is interested in numbers, I did a quick calculation for the most common case, and the average damage of a weapon is increased by * DamageIncreaseAvg = 0.5 * Str^2 / (WeapDamMax - WeapDamMin) (*Ignoring negligible terms for clarity. Not valid if strength is greater than the difference between the max and min damage of weapon, yadda yadda yadda...) D6 weapon, STR 3 .5*((3*3)/(6-1) = .5*(9/5) = .5*1.8 = .9 Actual answer should be .5 average damage increase. Â Unless I missed something in the Combat Mechanics thread. Hmm, yes you're right. I have seen damage rolls described as 0 to X before, but it's described in the combat thread as 1 to X. A little confusing. The approximation above is still right for larger damage ranges though... |
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Post by fallen on Jan 9, 2016 12:14:52 GMT -5
mushroom - we roll "real" dice such as a D30. We always say it that way to indicate that is 1 to 30 result. The dice are REAL man 
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 9, 2016 12:53:16 GMT -5
REAL= Random Element Algorithmic Logic
:-p
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Post by anrdaemon on Jan 9, 2016 22:06:57 GMT -5
I don't know how real are dices, but it seems my current party has a new favorite choker. :/ Completely useless one. Something like +6 holy dmg +%3 SP drain.
Already sold 3 of them.
Previous run it was at least useful (+12 Stealth)
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Post by mushroom on Jan 10, 2016 19:07:11 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the REAL d11 dice and the d17s. Geometric wonders, never before seen!!
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Post by algesan on Jan 11, 2016 0:03:26 GMT -5
Are they sharp edge precision dice or rounded edge funky dice. Of course, they could be like the clear red sharp edge D20 I had a few decades back that tended to roll 20s, especially for me....
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Post by ntsheep on Jan 11, 2016 0:17:15 GMT -5
doesn't matter what shape the dice are if you know how to jinx them |
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Post by algesan on Jan 11, 2016 0:17:25 GMT -5
Unless there is a true flaw in the game's RNG, the band doesn't matter, just the expected value. Sure, you can get a string of wimpy hits, but you can get a string of huge crits, too. As long as min damage hits can still score through the soaks, it's all good. My pontificating was about avg gain per hit, not min expected dmg... If you r hitting for better than 200 late game on avg, from high crit rate for example, it's likely possible only well under 10% of hits are gaining any dmg from str. Relative to enemy hp, it is best early game. In absolute gain it is best when the weapon dmg band matches max str. Edit: granted that is assuming basic attacks and defensive gear... From then on it's simply expected min. In sum it matches the needs of the learning curve, but not necessarily wanted excitement, depending on the individual. I'm purely discussing weapon damage calculations, the STR rule adds a jigger factor where small damage bands get a better results, but the expected value of the die roll + base damage, divided by the swings per round determines which is the better weapon. Later in the game the effects of the various soaks become a factor also. What I'm trying to point out is that small damage bands aren't necessarily superior to large damage bands. Sorry, I've been rolling dice most of my life, spurred by anomalies in games like the 1939 Polish A-bomb in Third Reich,, where a 1/216 chance will gut the German army fatally. So, I think like this in games. |
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Post by algesan on Jan 11, 2016 0:26:05 GMT -5
doesn't matter what shape the dice are if you know how to jinx them I really wish I knew how I did it with that one. We tried everything like dice cups, bouncing it in a box and other goodies. Darn die kept rolling lots of 20s for me. They finally made me quit using it.... |
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Post by fallen on Jan 11, 2016 11:14:02 GMT -5
What I'm trying to point out is that small damage bands aren't necessarily superior to large damage bands. I heartily agree with this. Especially for 2H weapons, the new Strength rules help provide a guarantee on a large band, giving you a great base, with the potential for a true smashing hit. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 11, 2016 16:17:55 GMT -5
I agree, sorry algesan, by 'expected' I took it to mean min, not avg and range. I totally agree with your math and am doing much the same in my head. Still 7 added to base weapon dmg lvl 1 for Vraes when hitting things with 20-40 hp is more relative value than 72 added to min dmg x3 crits on enemies with more than 500hp. I'm just pointing out different things as I think of them. |
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Post by algesan on Jan 12, 2016 1:46:53 GMT -5
I agree, sorry algesan , by 'expected' I took it to mean min, not avg and range. I totally agree with your math and am doing much the same in my head. Still 7 added to base weapon dmg lvl 1 for Vraes when hitting things with 20-40 hp is more relative value than 72 added to min dmg x3 crits on enemies with more than 500hp. I'm just pointing out different things as I think of them. Yep, other factors later in the game, mainly the bigger soaks and dice pools. Also correct that as the damage gets bigger it isn't as much of a factor. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 13, 2016 16:39:06 GMT -5
Str based ranged weapons? I think Kincaid using heavy Str based TKs would combine well with 1h swords. Same for Selen 1h swords and Str heavy draw Bows.
Right now they seem nonexistent-largely limited options in game.
If both were to happen (more), then Tam could go STR as well. Tho probably not a good idea for her being too vulnerable atm without dex builds...
In a related vein, the 2ap TKs boost in shop are too weak, they should be 4 range or higher dmg. Only 6 more dmg top end is way too little to be worth more than halving the attacks.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jan 13, 2016 16:45:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback!
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