|
|
Post by ntsheep on Jun 28, 2016 17:11:32 GMT -5
Strength is one stat I've never put much into. I once tried building a high strength captain since it didn't raise your level but found it really didn't work out to well. You still needed good Pilot and Stealth to be able to get close to another ship for boarding which made it pointless. This new rule on strength does sound fun to try. In the past I also tended to stock pile my XP and then spend it all at once. The new rules for that sound like a challenge too.
|
|
|
|
Post by redartrats on Jun 28, 2016 18:57:22 GMT -5
This patch would make my life harder -- as currently on high difficulty levels (Hard, Crazy, ...) my strategy involves pumping Strength. By a lot. And btw, it's not just a matter of dumping all your XP on strength, as ntsheep said, you still need pilot (I'm not sure is Stealth is necessary; I'd maybe raise it to 3 or 5 and focus mainly on Pilot besides pumping Strength). Ironically, though, in late game I'm finding that I'm relying less and less on pumping strength, as I fell behind on keeping Pilot at 200% level and I'm starting to see the effects, so now I'm spending more XP on Pilot instead. But anyway, OTOH, having strength count for level does make sense, since the current state of things does sound like a loophole in the system. It would make the game more challenging in late game, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It gets a bit boring once you have a powerful ship and can basically win every battle just by spamming Board. My current lvl 58 captain on Crazy has 109 Pilot and 116 Warrior, and basically every battle can be won just by closing and boarding. Even for Aliens -- he has recently slaughtered a series of Aliens this way: Narvidian Harvesters, carriers, stalkers, predators; Xrangg, Vicessita, Nyktos, Sidtax, Xytox Aliens. |
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on Jun 28, 2016 21:38:33 GMT -5
This patch would make my life harder -- as currently on high difficulty levels (Hard, Crazy, ...) my strategy involves pumping Strength. By a lot. And btw, it's not just a matter of dumping all your XP on strength, as ntsheep said, you still need pilot (I'm not sure is Stealth is necessary; I'd maybe raise it to 3 or 5 and focus mainly on Pilot besides pumping Strength). Ironically, though, in late game I'm finding that I'm relying less and less on pumping strength, as I fell behind on keeping Pilot at 200% level and I'm starting to see the effects, so now I'm spending more XP on Pilot instead. But anyway, OTOH, having strength count for level does make sense, since the current state of things does sound like a loophole in the system. It would make the game more challenging in late game, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It gets a bit boring once you have a powerful ship and can basically win every battle just by spamming Board. My current lvl 58 captain on Crazy has 109 Pilot and 116 Warrior, and basically every battle can be won just by closing and boarding. Even for Aliens -- he has recently slaughtered a series of Aliens this way: Narvidian Harvesters, carriers, stalkers, predators; Xrangg, Vicessita, Nyktos, Sidtax, Xytox Aliens. You're actually the exact use case for the patch. High Strength builds are less fun than more flexible ones, and after Level 60 on Crazy difficulty stops being able to keep up -- way worse on STR builds. You'd definitely see a nerf, but the game would be more fun. |
|
athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611 
|
Post by athios on Jun 29, 2016 16:40:36 GMT -5
Cory Trese , I remember you mentioning this was a long-standing bug on Android. Glad you were finally able to work out a fix. There are a couple veterans here who rely on a high (and in one particular case, ridiculously high) Strength character build. Doing this patch will really mess up those pre-existing characters, so I think there should be fair warning of the upcoming change (e.g. announcing the patch in update notes a few updates ahead of time) so people who don't want the change can avoid getting the update. Or is it possible to have this patch be a toggle setting under Options? That way, people can still play their old captains with original XP/level formula, and new captains with the patched formula. From my point of view, this is a long-overdue critical bug fix. I'll have to substantially change how I play, but I just unlocked Fist of Shalun (my final challenge), so I have nothing to lose. Will give me an extra incentive to try out the high stealth torping build that you mentioned in some other thread... 
|
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on Jun 29, 2016 16:43:29 GMT -5
It isn't a bug, not at all. It was by design that Stealth is included and Strength is not.
An option to change it is out of the question due to Android.
|
|
athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
|
Post by athios on Jun 29, 2016 18:14:38 GMT -5
Whaaat...? But... but... startradersrpg.proboards.com/post/94623@wovii - it is a longstanding bug that Strength does not count toward Captain level in Android. This is a bug that does not exist in the Apple version. We are working toward closing the bug in Android. In any case, I'm in support of fixing this issue. |
|
|
|
Post by ntsheep on Jun 29, 2016 18:39:48 GMT -5
athios as the unofficial scribe of the forum I must give you great praise for hunting down that post from fallen. You sir get a +1 karma 
|
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on Jun 30, 2016 8:45:36 GMT -5
Whaaat...? But... but... startradersrpg.proboards.com/post/94623@wovii - it is a longstanding bug that Strength does not count toward Captain level in Android. This is a bug that does not exist in the Apple version. We are working toward closing the bug in Android. In any case, I'm in support of fixing this issue. Cool. Well, call it whatever you want. If you want to call it a bug, or a critical bug, that's fine. The code in question was written September 18, 2010. It has remained completely unchanged since then. It is a one line change to adjust the leveling system, and while we've known about the equation's form for 6 years, it has never been changed. If it is a bug, it is one of the luckiest ones ever ... for being so incredibly easy to change and yet remaining unchanged for so long. |
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Jun 30, 2016 9:36:09 GMT -5
Whaaat...? But... but... startradersrpg.proboards.com/post/94623@wovii - it is a longstanding bug that Strength does not count toward Captain level in Android. This is a bug that does not exist in the Apple version. We are working toward closing the bug in Android. In any case, I'm in support of fixing this issue. Lol, it's part of the secret code of knowing which of us knows what he is talking about with which game  Makes me feel like an idiot. Oh well, I was dead wrong! |
|
athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
|
Post by athios on Jun 30, 2016 9:45:24 GMT -5
LOL, thank you ntsheep . Fallen's post had really stuck in my mind because it changed how I thought of the XP system. Cory, I guess I just always assumed it was a bug because several of us had discussed this kind of as a way to game the system, not just in PMs but also publicly on the forums too. If you don't mind going into the initial history a bit, I'm sure I'm not the only one rather curious why Strength was designed to work this way?  |
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on Jun 30, 2016 10:08:06 GMT -5
The design of the game is such that the enemies and the player are symmetrical -- the same rules that govern the player's ship governs the enemy. Because Stealth is used in so many tests, and Strength so few, they were heavily weighted in the leveling equation.
By excluding Strength, their are viable builds for the player that make them more like a Xeno -- very high STR, moderate level. These builds were/are intended to provide an interplay between the character's build and the enemy builder.
Since STR is excluded, and the Xeno builder prefers to buy STR points when leveling up, very strong Xeno Captains can be generated at almost any level in game. This makes the Xeno very, very dangerous no matter what game level your Captain is.
|
|
athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
|
Post by athios on Jun 30, 2016 13:01:16 GMT -5
I see. That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to us. So if I understand correctly: - Currently, adding points to Strength doesn't increase XP cost for further stat additions, and doesn't contribute to level
- You are proposing (I think) adding points to Strength doesn't increase XP cost for further stat additions, but does contribute to level
- What about a third alternative where adding points to Strength does increase XP cost for further stat additions, and doesn't contribute to level? Not sure how the Xeno builder works, but I'm assuming this would primarily impact high-Strength players (slowing down their leveling rate relative to Turns Played) but Xenos could still be formidable at any level.
|
|
|
|
Post by redartrats on Jun 30, 2016 16:35:26 GMT -5
This is fascinating. So in a way, the strength-based approach to building an alien-hunting captain strikes precisely where it matters: match the Xeno builder's propensity to level up strength, so the resulting captain is, in some sense, competitive with the Xeno captain. This probably explains why, ever since I decided to try out str-based alien hunters, I've had resounding success fighting Xeno's.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cory Trese on Jun 30, 2016 16:36:03 GMT -5
The proposal is to treat STR as a normal stat, with all the impacts of raising it.
|
|
athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
|
Post by athios on Jun 30, 2016 18:32:40 GMT -5
Bold. I hope more people chime in on this discussion.
|
|
