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Post by Th334 on Jul 2, 2016 5:32:07 GMT -5
Hi,
I'm very confused what does the text "+X Security/Lore for Save" means on thief's/wizard's talents. Higher level talent gives more Security/Lore for Save. Save? Save from what?
It's particularly confusing because:
1) In skill description, Security is stated as having no impact on unlocking/disarming. So what is it doing in talent description?
2) In skill description, Lore is stated as having an impact both on Warding Words and Spirit Sight (what effect would it even have on Spirit Sight?)
Long story short, could someone please explain in great detail every factor that goes into unlocking/disarming for both classes, what are these saves in talent descriptions, and what's the role of Security and Lore in particular.
Thanks.
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sennett
Consul
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Post by sennett on Jul 2, 2016 8:45:37 GMT -5
It will help stop a trap from going off if you step on it.
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Post by fallen on Jul 2, 2016 9:00:45 GMT -5
Hi, I'm very confused what does the text "+X Security/Lore for Save" means on thief's/wizard's talents. Higher level talent gives more Security/Lore for Save. Save? Save from what? It's particularly confusing because: 1) In skill description, Security is stated as having no impact on unlocking/disarming. So what is it doing in talent description? 2) In skill description, Lore is stated as having an impact both on Warding Words and Spirit Sight (what effect would it even have on Spirit Sight?) Long story short, could someone please explain in great detail every factor that goes into unlocking/disarming for both classes, what are these saves in talent descriptions, and what's the role of Security and Lore in particular. Thanks. That is probably just very misleading. I have taken a note to clean it up in the next release. Security has no impact on Unlocking or using the Talent to disarm. However, your Security Skill does give you a chance to automatically diarm any trap you step on accidentally. Lore has no impact on Unlocking. |
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Post by Th334 on Jul 2, 2016 10:53:06 GMT -5
Thanks, got it with Security skill.
However, how do these unlock/disarm talents improve as you level them up? Specifically, how does lock pick talent with "+2 Security for Save" different from the next level with "+4 Security for Save"? Does just having a higher level of this talent give a Security bonus for auto-disarming traps, even when you're not using the talent? Or what does the numbers +2 and +4 mean?
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sennett
Consul
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Post by sennett on Jul 2, 2016 11:44:04 GMT -5
DO NOT waste your points on those. There is no need to at the moment. You will be able to open all locks and disarm all traps in the game without adding a single point to those talents. Spend them somewhere else.
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Post by fallen on Jul 2, 2016 17:52:14 GMT -5
Thanks, got it with Security skill. However, how do these unlock/disarm talents improve as you level them up? Specifically, how does lock pick talent with "+2 Security for Save" different from the next level with "+4 Security for Save"? Does just having a higher level of this talent give a Security bonus for auto-disarming traps, even when you're not using the talent? Or what does the numbers +2 and +4 mean? That is what I will try to clean up in the next update. These Talents are truly a dead end at this time. There was a planned system with traps, chests, and doors with lock ratings, but it was not included at launch and we have let it die on the planning tree, rather than make a big mess of the thousands and thousands of games out there. Does that help? As @sennet said, don't waste points on raising Lockpick. If you raise Kjartan's lockpick to 1 , it is ranged, so that may be of value if you want it. If you raise the Farsight Talents, their AP cost goes down, range goes up, and the amount of defog they do also goes up, so there are reasons to raise them. Also, note for Farsight, that you get a 1 AP rebate when used on a Surprise turn. |
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Post by Th334 on Jul 3, 2016 5:06:17 GMT -5
Great, thanks!
Any plans on revisiting the mechanic in the future? To be honest, I'm happier to have no lock levels at all rather than an uninspired system like in Avernum where you just have to be spoiled about what skill level you need at what point of the game to benefit fully but not waste skill points unnecessarily. But if you guys can come up with a better system in the future that avoids creating a need for spoilers and actually adds interesting decisions, then even better.
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Post by anrdaemon on Jul 3, 2016 13:11:57 GMT -5
I'm happier to have no lock levels at all rather than an uninspired system like in Avernum where you just have to be spoiled about what skill level you need at what point of the game to benefit fully but not waste skill points unnecessarily. That was part of the reason it was abandoned, as I understand it. There was no ingame mechanics to put behind the skill to make it worthwhile to balance. |
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Post by Th334 on Jul 3, 2016 15:43:13 GMT -5
Cool, then maybe making these skills basic and impossible to level (like basic attacks) would be a good way to clean it up.
In a more tactical-focused game I'd even say ditch the whole concept of locked doors/chests (as it's only the matter of an extra click), but maybe in a game with more of a story like HoS it's okay to have a skill just for thematic reasons.
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Post by En1gma on Jul 3, 2016 15:55:17 GMT -5
There are a few places where there is a chest within a combat location. Making chests locked keeps the player from opening it during said combat and getting a lifesaving potion from within, without paying the 6 AP cost to do so.
Though, I wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of the locked chests altogether and
just preventing the player from opening them during combat.
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mg979
Initiate
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Posts: 13
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Post by mg979 on Jul 4, 2016 1:47:14 GMT -5
There are a few places where there is a chest within a combat location. Making chests locked keeps the player from opening it during said combat and getting a lifesaving potion from within, without paying the 6 AP cost to do so. Though, I wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of the locked chests altogether and just preventing the player from opening them during combat. I was going to suggest to remove locks from chests as well, except for red locks, but maybe it may be done so, that opening an unlocked chest during combat still costs 6AP as if casting the spell? |
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Post by fallen on Jul 4, 2016 10:28:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback all! En1gma - I've had enough experiences in combat where I would have lost if I could not have opened a chest that I wouldn't want to put that rule in place. It has happened to me at least twice in the fight with the Great Shaman, where the team is running out of SP and only Tami's well timed visit to a chest turns the tide. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 4, 2016 11:10:43 GMT -5
And definitely do NOT discount the probably 60+ locked door tactical elements in the game. Those are key choices, esp on high diff.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 4, 2016 11:12:21 GMT -5
oh and then the impact on the AI as well.
It would be very unfortunate to have this conversation and completely gloss over all the interesting ways that locked doors fit into the tactical part of HoS.
Hopefully my posts will get people thinking and seeing how central the locked door is to the tactical elements of the game.
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Zhivago
Hero
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Post by Zhivago on Jul 4, 2016 11:48:27 GMT -5
oh and then the impact on the AI as well. It would be very unfortunate to have this conversation and completely gloss over all the interesting ways that locked doors fit into the tactical part of HoS. Hopefully my posts will get people thinking and seeing how central the locked door is to the tactical elements of the game. Agreed. Not developing a system is different than removing it from the game entirely. I enjoy the thought that's put into creating encounters which make use of the lock/unlock system as it exists. |
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