Gun/Board Hybrids?

[resistor]

I was thinking about making a combat captain that uses a Type II boarding upgrade to effectively alternate between board and gun. Any tips for this strategy, like the best ways to spend XP?

Also, should I use Plasma Cutters or Attack Shuttles? They both seem to give the same Type II bonus, but Plasma Cutters get the extra benefit of a large bonus for first time board in combat. Does Attack Shuttle give a better short->zero range board transition bonus to compensate, or is it just inferior?

[violet]

This is definitely doable, though it's tricky to pull off - IIRC there are hidden bonuses for certain attack sequences (e.g. close > gun > board > retreat > gun).

I don't have a full stat allocation plan, since I always go for pure boarding in combat builds, but you definitely need a high pilot skill and a ship with good engine/hull. You need to be able to control battle positioning in order to make the right tactical choices (when to shoot, when to board) and capitalize on situational bonuses.

[resistor]

Thanks for the advice, violet .

In my first attempt to succeed with this style, I went for the Honor of Thulun, which is a decent ship for any purpose. I eventually died in a duel with a bounty hunter, probably because my Warrior was only at 1x my level. Grabbing a Spear Class this time, and aiming for higher Warrior.

EDIT: My Spear Class guy died. Rammed to death by pirate while flying to a friendly planet for repairs and replacing crew. Warrior at 1.5x level, Attack Shuttle Bays, and 20-something weapons not good enough.

[poryg]

That is because the ramming pirate had too much of a pilot skill. This is why I just surrender to pirates until I am lv 30
But it reminds me of my Alien hunter boarding pirate.. . I sacrificed other stats for warrior, leaving pilot, tactics and intimidate in about 70% of the level, while having warrior 2x my level. It has worked well for me so far... But one indy pirate made me really scared.. . He rammed his prow to me... 
He suffered only 1 armor damage, my ship did as well... But as a bonus, my prow was damaged from 36 down to 13! One more ram like this and I would be done... 

As for fighting aliens with this guy, so far none has survived longer than 10 turns. I killed every alien captain. Perhaps Crazy difficulty is too easy :/

[resistor]

To answer my own question about Cutters vs Shuttles, I've been looking through some old threads and I found this: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/2835/resistance-boarding

Apparently Plasma Cutters will help damage the enemy if they board your ship, so there is another advantage of Plasma Cutters, but Shuttles indeed looks like it is better for damaging the enemy in boarding them, considering it gets a 3 instead of a 1 in the code-thing.

[violet]

When you're really serious about boarding combat, you need at least 30 weapons. I recommend at 1.5x pilot and warrior. The key to boarding combat is strength: keep it at 3x your level. Strength doesn't increase your level, which helps keep your build intact.

Since you'll want to shoot, a higher pilot might be warranted.

Personally, I prefer the weapons cabinet to the attack shuttle. Each weapon gives +1 warrior, plus crew bonuses up to ([crew - engines] * 2) when boarding. That's a flat +25.

Maybe you can keep your warrior at 1x level and pilot at 2x. 3x level strength and a hold full of weapons will compensate for the lower warrior skill.

Getting a pilot officer might work, instead, but I'm not really sure how the pilot officer and spice bonuses work, since I've never really used them.

The trick is getting an adequate tactics skill so your guns are effective. You might have to sacrifice intimidation, at least at first.

[resistor]

Thanks again, violet . I know leveling Strength is extremely effective for boarding, but it just feels like cheating to me. I have one time made a pure boarding captain that was very effective without leveling Strength past what I wanted for Warrior. He had Weapon Cabinets and Shalun Mercs with Warrior 2x level. Though he seemed unbeatable in boarding, he was torped several times then gunned to death by a pirate.

Anyway, I'm still going to try to use a Type II upgrade just to keep expirementing to see if it's possible to make a good build around it, but next attempt I'm going for a ship with a large cargo hold to store weapons.

EDIT: Died at level 13. My ship was a Templar Cutter with Plasma Cutters as the Type II upgrade. Warrior was twice my level and had 30-something weapons. The reoccurring problem seems to be that, although I can easily survive any battle at full repair/crew, every battle wears my crew numbers down significantly. When fighting a bounty hunter with a slightly higher level then me, I will usually lose about 12-17 crew, if memory serves correctly.
Hmm...
I think I might know why. My "succesful" pure boarding captain I mentioned in the first paragraph had about 95 crew, with 41 engines. That is boarding with up to 54 crew, which actually counts as 69 crew, considering shalun mercs fight as double. He usually only lost an average of around 4 crew per battle, I think.
All these Type II expirements tended to have smaller crew minus engine (c-m). In fact, I'm pretty sure my most recent one had only 31 max c-m.

For all my Type II expirements, I've had either WF tank or Adv Combat Bridge for interior upgrade. Two new different experimental variations I want to try:
1)Focus more heavily on Tactics because Tactics can keep crew losses down when boarding with small crew
2)Keep tactics normal and get a +crew upgrade for Interior instead of Bridge or WF Tank.

[poryg]

According to the help file, a huge emphasis is put on strength from third boarding attempt (in last three turns). Otherwise it is rather a support skill. It's not that much of a cheating though, since enemy captains can have huge strength too. In boarding nothing beats warrior skill though.
My last boarding captain carries 100 weapons. His warrior skill is 2x captain level, so with the weapon bonus it's almost doubled And boarding aliens has never been easier.
With 100 weapons you can definitely sacrifice some warrior for pilot. Tactics aren't really that much of an issue, even with 70% of captain's level you can gun enemies efficiently, since pilot helps guns hit rate too. 

[poryg]

resistor, how high was your intimidate skill?

[resistor]

In my most recent death, intimidate was 12, which was, in retrospect, probably higher than I needed. I intended to keep it there and not level it for a while.


EDIT: Died again. This time I had a Cadar Templar w/ 40 weapons and 117 max crew (after Battleship Architecture). Pirate torped me several times, killed most of my crew. A few encounters later, a warship finished me off.
Having so many weapons makes enemies that torp and gun more dangerous, I'll have to either level Stealth, stop holding so many weapons, or get more armor then hull to greatly resist torp damage. The latter seems the best solution.

[violet]

Looks like torps and crew/engine ratio are your main obstacles with this build. This is a tricky problem, since they seem to demand opposite responses -- increasing ship agility (engines) will help you evade, close distance, and give you boarding bonuses, but that reduces your engine/crew ratio.

Let's refine the approach to this build. As a dual-role gunner/type II boarder, the primary function is battlefield control: in order to gun and board properly, you need complete control of positioning relative to the enemy.

Ideally, you never want to board for more than one turn. Strength is a secondary concern, since its role is for sustained boarding; you'll have a decent amount of it anyway, since you need a good amount of Warrior. Pilot is the highest priority, since it's used for closing distance, maintaining range at short range, and (I believe) retreating from short range. Tactics is important, but a lower tactics skill can be compensated for by high pilot.

A high pilot skill and an agile ship will allow you to control positioning optimally.

The trick is 1) having enough weapons and crew to compensate for lots of engines, and 2) avoiding torpedo damage.

1. I suggest the Cargo Hold propulsion upgrade (+20% cargo), since you sacrifice the Weapons Cabinet for plasma cutters. Battleship Architecture is also a must to maximize crew size.

2. Armor won't help much against torps. I think ship agility plays a role in torp evasion, since my level 56 captain never gets hit by torps, even against level 200 aliens, and she has 1 stealth. (Or maybe it's sails? Her ship has a ton of sails.) Still, if torps remain a persistent problem, you'll be forced to invest in stealth. Fortunately, a high pilot helps you close the distance, and that's already the mainstay of your build.

If you can close on the enemy relatively unscathed, you should be fine so long as you stick to a shoot > board > retreat > shoot pattern and have sufficient weapons. Make sure your intimidate can handle the crew size.

Cargo Pods, one of the sail upgrades, or the WF recycler would be good for the propulsion upgrade slot (to make room for more weapons). For the armament slot, it's up to you -- cargo, armor, or engines + guns.

[poryg]

Couldn't say it better, violet .
For torps damage avoidance, it definitely helps to have a fast ship. Quick doesn't really contribute to the torp damage avoidance, only the ship's agility matters.
Fast ship avoids torps a whole lot better than a medium one.
Even better if the ship has 30+ solar Sails.
A huge number of solar Sails is a nice defence against the torp damage.

My 36 hull ship has 40 solar Sails... and never had a problem with torps. I couldn't trust only 1 stealth and raised it to 10 though.

I still have to note that it's not a sure save. Against stealth builds I would still be completely doomed, because even though the ship has 33 armor and 40 engines, it still can't survive the armor piercing, engine hungry and crew limbs craving HK supersonic torpedoes. And with lack of stealth, it would be impossible to even escape.
But that is the builds trait in ST RPG... Doesn't matter what you build, you can never build a perfect captain.
But what matters is, I have never seen an AI try to gain distance in combat mode. So once you close distance, you are saved from torps. 

As for the crew size... I have 260 crew and can handle it pretty well with 36 intimidate. But the more, the merrier. I would say, the officers are a necessary help as well... And the Templar officer helps boarding a lot! 
I use military and bodyguard too. This combination gives an immense boarding bonus. 
But again, I think that this build cannot dominate the game for too long. It's not a build I would put against aliens, mainly because I lose most or all guns in one board. 

[violet]

That's super good to know -- you need high sails and high agility to keep the torps away, probably with a minor investment in stealth.

I wonder if it's the raw number of sails or if it's sails/hull ratio. Either way, you'll want high sails to dodge the first shot and massive engines to to close the gap in the first round. 30+ sails boosts WF efficiency, too, so that's more space for hold bonuses.

edit: from the help file:

The Sails propel the ship over long distances at high speeds with little agility. The Sail helps with accurate Torpedoes, main map Ship movement and evasion in combat when at long range.

High Solar sails to hull ratio are good for torpedoes, changing range at long range, retreating at medium range, evading torps, and avoiding encounters during deep space travel.

So that's that. You want a high engine/hull and sails/hull ratio to minimize damage when closing distance.

[resistor]

The trouble is I have to have a ship with high stats in everything except hull and torps, so this time I decided to just make one in the ship designer.

It cost over a million credits: 18 Hull, 11 Armor, 36 Engines (41 after upgrade), 51 Sails, 113 Crew, 100 Cargo (130 after upgrades), 28 Guns, 6 Torps.

Upgraded with Cargo Hold, Attack Shuttles, Adv Combat Bridge*, Titan Components, and Cargo Pod.

Hold has 65 weapons, 13 spice (for Pilot officer), and rest of cargo is for water-fuel.

Pilot is 2x level, Tactics 2/3 level, Intimidate static at 15, rest goes into Warrior. Level 16 and doing pretty well so far.

*I got the Bridge instead of a crew upgrade to more reliably escape from zero range after I board

EDIT: *sigh* Finding the right balance of skills is tricky. I'm not hitting very reliably with guns against high level targets now, so I'm going to start making Tactics more of a priority. New Skill balance: Pilot 1.75x level, Warrior 1.5x 1.25 level, rest goes into Tactics.

EDIT: Got to level 25, then encountered lvl 43 Pirate. Was rammed 3 times in a row, then I managed to successfully board, but the rest of my hull was destroyed in boarding action.

[Cory Trese]

Sounds like you had a great run!