How to build a char?

[leichenteil]

Hi,
I'm new to the forums and first want to say, that StartradersRpg is really great and actually one of the very few phone games which deserve to be called a "game".

But now my questions.
At the moment I'm playing my chars on crazy cause hard seemed to easy after unlocking a lot of awards.
My problem is that my tactics how to evolve a char don't seem to work anymore on that difficulty.
The ingame wiki describes a lot but also makes me somewhat clueless since every stat seems to influence every other stat.

For example:
My best attempts for a combat captain up to hard was playing pirate and pushing tactics and pilot to the initial limit of 12, then putting xp into stealth, warrior and intimidate.
I've ignored explorer and negotiate completely, raised wisdom/quickness and it worked.
On crazy I feel like this isn't enough and I need more focus on my main stats (in this case tactics/pilot).
And dump other ones for those.
BUT if I dump stuff like warrior, stealth or intimidate I get either killed by boarders, torpers or won't come far because of horrible fuel usage.

I'm aware that ship upgrades are at least as important as character stats and guess I get which ones are the most useful for each captain.

I'm doing fine with non combat captains on crazy and am earning huge amounts of cash with almost 0 trouble.
But combat captains are always getting killed sooner or later, and I think this is because of wrong xp distribution which results in earning not enough money to get a better ship.
Mostly my journey ends around lvl 8-10.

Could somebody please give me some tips how to build a char or provide more numbers to calculate with?
(google gives misleading and seemingly outdated information)

Thanks in advance!

[resistor]

I don't have much experience with boarding characters, but I have gotten to level 51 on Impossible with a pure gun focused character. My skill distribution for that strategy: keep Tactics at 75% of level, and put the rest of XP into Pilot.

Pilot actually gives a small bonus for dodging torps, and since I have so much Pilot, I don't need Stealth. I don't need Warrior or Intimidate either, as I don't plan on boarding or getting boarded.

I actually wrote a full guide for my build on this forum. It's not entirely complete, and I plan on editing it in the future, but it has a lot of information as it is now. Here's the link, if you want to see it: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/13996/gunner-bh-guide-hunters-legs

[leichenteil]

How did you came to those numbers?

I've got to admit the description of the skills and attributes made it look like if you're better of in this game by having "a bit of everything".
Don't know if you did play stuff like baldurs gate, but I'm trying to explain what I mean with this example.

In BG you have some attributes which are basically useless for some classes.
For example intelligence and wisdom are dump stats for every char which isn't using spells.
The equivalent in ST would be, actually only, explorer for a combat captain.
Even negotiate seems like it wouldn't be bad cause it generally lowers prices and seems to do so for repairs too.

I've read in your guide and the comments that it is a good idea to have a distribution of 2 points in warrior and somebody mentioned negotiate as well (for your build).
I don't really get how those numbers came up.
If you got, let's say, 30 pilot and 20 tactics, how does having 3 warrior make a difference if you eventually get boarded and the enemy has like 40 warrior at this time?
This wasn't your suggestion btw, just asking about it.

To come back to my BG example:
A fighter there is able to drop int to 1 cause he doesn't need it.
The paladin class on the other hand needs every single attribute to do its job well.
I'm uncertain how it works here but most people only seem to push 2 or 3 skills/attributes.
While this certainly works for very narrow playstyles like a gunner captain (fighter), I feel like it does not for a boarder (paladin) for example.
Exploration is the exception cause you only ever need it for exploring.

Further, I don't have a single clue how the attributes interact with your actions except that you need them to raise skills.
Why does a military officer start with high char if nobody uses intimidate/negotiate for combat?

Got a lot more questions but I stop here, because it's getting a huge wall of text.

[filthyluca]

My experience is having 1 warrior causes the captain to be injured very easily. Negotiate also ties into the total price you can buy at an exchange and cause just 1 turn of the game clock. Having 4 points or so helps resupply wafer fuel without taking too much valuable time. There will always be an enemy type/level/pulsating xeno mass that your build won't be able to defend against. Warrior is the most important boarding skill especially if you combine it with the leviathan upgrade. If you're not a juggernaut of destruction with all your papers and ranks in order having really high stealth allows you to choose your engagements and when you get pulled in its easier to escape. Sorry if this is disjointed, trying to understand this game is like the first half of a movie about a mathematician but if you spend enough time creeping the forums you'll start to see the patterns dancing around your head. It's all connected!

[filthyluca]

Also attributes are used for some game dice rolls but I believe outcomes are more heavily weighted towards skills.

[leichenteil]

Thanks for your help so far guys
I'm going to test your tipps and read more in the forum.

Really great and deep game.
Trying to understand how it works is fun, I don't mind researching a lot.

[poryg]

My greatest achievement is lv 81 captain on impossible difficulty (then he met misfortune and died - in translation I used him as an experiment), but to be honest, I build captains on impossible difficulty quite successfully.
The key to success is simple. Actually a two step process. I will share mine, built partially from my experience and from experience of others.
1. set your goal. Who do you want your captain to be? A peaceful merchant? Boarder? Gunner? Torper? A smuggler? It's up to you. But there is the second step.
2. Adjust your build to your goal.
If you want to be a merchant, there are only three important stats.
Negotiation (but 30 is enough), pilot (to cut fuel consumption to a degree you are happy with) and stealth (to avoid encounters with aliens).
Smuggler is the same as merchant with the only difference that there is much higher emphasis put on stealth than pilot, because I don't want torps to hit me.
Gunner is the simplest among the war builds. It puts emphasis on huge pilot (about 200% of captain level). Then you need tactics (70-80% per level) and some stealth, I use 10 stealth per 100 levels.
Torper is also very simple and straightforward. But the difference is, you want to have huge stealth (about 150% of captain level) and tactics (about 120% of captain level). Then only some pilot to decrease fuel consumption to a reasonable degree, I don't go over 20 even on impossible though, because I use fuel-friendly ships.
Then there is a boarder. Others say that it's important to have huge pilot, but since I build only alien hunters, to me it's important to have huge warrior (like 200% of captain level). The advantage of it is that it gives critical hits, damaging only enemy crew and engines while receiving only damage to solar sails and crew due to the enemy not having enough battle stats against me. The other stats are somehow irrelevant to me, although I still have to use pilot and intimidate to cut fuel costs a bit.

startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/12367/easy-fighter-character-build-guide

This could help you. I use this simple guide while playing on impossible difficulty and have great success there. But use it on your own danger, since it, in my view, absolutely simplifies the game system.

[resistor]

Nov 11, 2016 7:44:53 GMT -5 leichenteil said:

How did you came to those numbers?

I've got to admit the description of the skills and attributes made it look like if you're better of in this game by having "a bit of everything".
Don't know if you did play stuff like baldurs gate, but I'm trying to explain what I mean with this example.

In BG you have some attributes which are basically useless for some classes.
For example intelligence and wisdom are dump stats for every char which isn't using spells.
The equivalent in ST would be, actually only, explorer for a combat captain.
Even negotiate seems like it wouldn't be bad cause it generally lowers prices and seems to do so for repairs too.

I haven't played BG, but I know what you mean. The thing is, enemies scale to your level in ST, and that forces players to specialize at what they want to be good at. For example, if you are a pure gunner and you put XP in Intimidate to reduce W-F consumption, the AI ships will be higher level also, causing the AI to be more potent in combat while your combat abilities haven't changed at all. So investing in nonessential stats can actually make you relatively weaker in combat.

I've read in your guide and the comments that it is a good idea to have a distribution of 2 points in warrior and somebody mentioned negotiate as well (for your build).
I don't really get how those numbers came up.
If you got, let's say, 30 pilot and 20 tactics, how does having 3 warrior make a difference if you eventually get boarded and the enemy has like 40 warrior at this time?
This wasn't your suggestion btw, just asking about it.

About having a couple points in Negotiate... Negotiate doesn't just reduce buy prices, it also decreases the amount of (in game) weeks that it takes to buy something. The games difficulty increases with each passing (in game) week, so a combat character with a few extra points in Negotiate theoretically might have an easier time fighting the AIs, then if he didn't. I'm not sure if it really makes a substantial difference. It is something I need to get around to testing for myself.

About having 2 extra points in Warrior... I don't really see the point of it. 1 Warrior vs being boarded by a 40 Warrior AI is like being in the sight of a hostile tank with no weapons to defend yourself with. 3 Warrior vs 40 is like being in the sight of a hostile tank with a BB gun to defend yourself with. You're not in for a good time either way.

To come back to my BG example:
A fighter there is able to drop int to 1 cause he doesn't need it.
The paladin class on the other hand needs every single attribute to do its job well.
I'm uncertain how it works here but most people only seem to push 2 or 3 skills/attributes.
While this certainly works for very narrow playstyles like a gunner captain (fighter), I feel like it does not for a boarder (paladin) for example.
Exploration is the exception cause you only ever need it for exploring.

Although I am by no means an expert on boarding, I believe you are right that boarders need a wider variety of skills.

Further, I don't have a single clue how the attributes interact with your actions except that you need them to raise skills.
Why does a military officer start with high char if nobody uses intimidate/negotiate for combat?

Got a lot more questions but I stop here, because it's getting a huge wall of text.

Attributes have some minor effect on various things in the game, but it is usually not enough to warrant leveling an Attribute for its own sake. It is generally best to level Attributes only for the sake of raising Skills.
Strength used to be the exception, as there was a time when levelling Strength did not increase your level, so you could level it infinitely without causing the AIs to scale with it. That has been patched, but it might still be worth it to have more Strength than Warrior for a boarding build, I don't know.

Intimidate is actually useful in boarding combat, which is why Military Officer has Charisma. Intimidate is mainly important for reducing your crew deaths when boarding enemies.

[grävling]

The thing I learned when moving from Hard to Crazy was:

Is your pilot at 35 yet? If the answer is no, put more in pilot. After you get 35 in pilot worry about your build. @porgy has the right sort of ideas, though I disagree that 30 is enough negotiation for Smuggler and Merchant captains ... I want 45. For these builds I skimp on warrior. And how porgy gets by on 20 Pilot on a Torp captain .... he clearly knows something I don't as I am always up to my ears in mutinuous crew due to running out of water unless I have 35 pilot for _everybody_. I have no clue how to build a boarder captain these days. My old strategy .... strength, strength, and then more strength ... has been nerfed, and I haven't quite figured out how to do this in these modern times.

Hope that helps,
Gräv

[poryg]

Nov 12, 2016 7:51:41 GMT -5 grävling said:

The thing I learned when moving from Hard to Crazy was:

Is your pilot at 35 yet? If the answer is no, put more in pilot. After you get 35 in pilot worry about your build. @porgy has the right sort of ideas, though I disagree that 30 is enough negotiation for Smuggler and Merchant captains ... I want 45. For these builds I skimp on warrior. And how porgy gets by on 20 Pilot on a Torp captain .... he clearly knows something I don't as I am always up to my ears in mutinuous crew due to running out of water unless I have 35 pilot for _everybody_. I have no clue how to build a boarder captain these days. My old strategy .... strength, strength, and then more strength ... has been nerfed, and I haven't quite figured out how to do this in these modern times.

Hope that helps,
Gräv

I am more than happy to answer.
First of all, I am poryg, not @porgy But truth is that I thought about changing my name to it... Because somehow Poryg is taken too often nowadays.
The more negotiation skill you have, the better... I haven't found the best number, but I am perfectly comfortable with 30 negotiation. However, it has some things to be noted.
The more negotiation you have, the more the difference between economies decrease. 100 negotiation eliminates it almost fully, so too much negotiation hurts your profits, because there is nothing like cheap or expensive metals or anything like that.
20 negotiation is enough to eliminate the independent planets' extra high price margin. Which is quite enough for me, so I am always happy for 30 negotiation. Truth is, you really don't need more, but it's not necessarily the optimal choice.

As far as the 20 pilot on torper goes... It's also simple. I have a ship designer and use custom built ships, which are suitable for the task. If you want to know more details about the stats, send me a message, I will tell you.

As for the boarder.. . Since the strength has been eliminated, even more emphasis is put on WARRIOR and WEAPONS in the cargo hold. Having a huge warrior with lots of weapons makes you unbeatable in close range...

[grävling]

Aha. First of all, apologies for getting poryg's name wrong. And, yes, I came up with the Pilot rule of thumb in the days before there was a ship designer. So perhaps I just need to find better designs.

[leichenteil]

I've tried a boarding captain yesterday again for hunting aliens.
Difficulty is hard to get a better grip what's important.

Everything went fine till I switched my second ship, which was a Admiral Raider, for a custom designed one.
I'm not dead yet btw but things start to turn sour.

Admiral Raider stats are:
12 hull
15 armor
36 engines
21 sails
95 crew
70 hold
28 guns
9 torps
medium/quick

Custom ship stats:
18 hull
20 armor
44 engines
44 sails
120 crew
105 hold
20 guns
8 torps
fast/quick

The biggest difference to mention here is that I used an escape shuttle bay for the Admiral Raider but a Leviathan System for the custom ship.

Captain stats:
10 char, 10 wis, 24 quick, 26 str
10 intimidate, 10 tactics, 26 warrior, 24 pilot and the rest at 1 at lvl 12.

Since I've changed ships I'm losing crew and sails like crazy when boarding.
Before it was usually 0-1 dmg taken when boarding any ship which wasn't an alien one.
Remember, there's even a Leviathan in use now.

My guesses why this is happening are the new pilot to hull ratios and probably the almost 30% higher crew size without higher intimidate.
The ingame wiki mentions intimidate being important for boarding and making the captain "being able to keep track on the crew during exploration".
I guess the last point is also taken in account when boarding.

I also think that tactics is important for a boarder, but I can't tell any ratios yet.
Depending on how long this captain is going to live, I'll try to push those 2 stats and see if things get better again.
Oh, and there are almost 40 weapons in my cargo now, where about 20 or less with the other ship.


Does anybody else have a clue why this is happening?

[resistor]

Nov 13, 2016 3:15:35 GMT -5 leichenteil said:

I've tried a boarding captain yesterday again for hunting aliens.
Difficulty is hard to get a better grip what's important.

Everything went fine till I switched my second ship, which was a Admiral Raider, for a custom designed one.
I'm not dead yet btw but things start to turn sour...

...The biggest difference to mention here is that I used an escape shuttle bay for the Admiral Raider but a Leviathan System for the custom ship...

...Since I've changed ships I'm losing crew and sails like crazy when boarding.
Before it was usually 0-1 dmg taken when boarding any ship which wasn't an alien one.
Remember, there's even a Leviathan in use now.

My guesses why this is happening are the new pilot to hull ratios and probably the almost 30% higher crew size without higher intimidate.
The ingame wiki mentions intimidate being important for boarding and making the captain "being able to keep track on the crew during exploration".
I guess the last point is also taken in account when boarding.

I also think that tactics is important for a boarder, but I can't tell any ratios yet...

I could be mistaken, but I suspect your new problem is due to these two factors, Crew and Speed. Bigger crews require more Intimidate for boarding, and you'll suffer more losses if you don't have enough. Another factor that might be contributing to your problem is the fact that your new ship is FAST. Ship speed and agility ratings (SLOW, MEDIUM, FAST) can affect how vulnerable they are to damage. Higher rated ships are more vulnerable to damage.

As far as I know, Tactics is only useful in boarding when you have a small crew trying to board a large one, so I don't think that is the problem here.

[poryg]

Let me give you some advice.
Don't go on alien hunting until you have grasped the game. Alien hunting is too advanced.
Your problem is, you are being aggressive too soon. Your captain is seriously underdeveloped, that is the main problem. Look at the pilot vs. Warrior ratio. Pilot is a main stat in DEFENDING AGAINST BEING BOARDED, but for the ACTUAL BOARDING it's useless. While WARRIOR is the MAIN STAT FOR BOARDING, but it isn't used in the DEFENCE FROM BEING BOARDED. So my advice is, be less aggressive and develop your character before you start any aggression. And don't be scared to sacrifice other stats in expense for warrior.
For boarding against small crews, intimidate plays a role to prevent losses. But aliens have huge ships with lots of crew, so there the intimidate isn't that much of an issue as long as you have huge warrior to support your crew.
To support warrior, you should also have weapons in your hold, every weapon in your cargo is equal to 3 warrior and gives you even crew count bonuses when you are boarding.
Also, for alien hunting this ship is really bad. You will need lots of crew to deal with aliens. Fast/quick ship is bad against aliens, the best against them is a huge ship with lots of crew and weapons. But against small faction ships a moderate ship is more than enough.
Tactics are good when you want to retreat without taking damage, otherwise you can just keep them low and use warrior instead.

[grävling]

leichenteil:

Your basic problem is that your captain is only level 12. Level 12 captains aren't all that good at fighting anything, even with optimal stat allocation for whatever sort of bully you are trying to be. A second problem is that you have a fast/quick ship. fast/quick ships need more pilot than other sorts, and I already think you are underpiloted for anything at all (but you saw that before). fast/quick ships are not the preferred choice of fighting captains. A fast/quick ship says -- I do not wish to fight at all, and when I have encounters I wish to run away, and when I run away I wish to take as little damage as possible (so I put points in tactics).