The Krete Kompromise!

[matrim]

A little alliteration to get us started. Lets face it, Krete suck. 8 range, hard hitting, very defensive and dodgy. On top of all that they have such high spot that they get first turn so often.

I am requesting a bit of balance on them. Can you lower their spot to below average? Having their kit with that high spot just makes areas where you have to fight them unfun. Those surprise rounds that see anyone in your group getting pelted by 150 damage (impossible to dodge) hits does not test tactics at all. I feel they are strategically challenging enough with 8 range and super tankiness that adding in the occasional lottery death round is a bit much.

PS. Yes I am going through Sea Road and no I did not die, but it was freaking close!

[wascalwywabbit]

That's saying a lot coming from you...

What if there were a bit more stealth gear in ep 1 and 2 for those cases?

Alternatively, maybe instead of so many archers for some Krete, have Krete "Elementalists" with 4 range but do extra (as in all types) elemental damage, or Krete "Scavengers" with slightly buffed armor and melee/thrown weapons.

[matrim]

Krete archers and Spider Host Initiates are the only 2 "unfair" enemies I feel are in this game. I just think that if you build stealth and still lose 30% of the time to something that can one shot you round 1, something is off. I've lost many ironman games to watching my 30 Stealth, 29 Dodge Tamilin just get ripped apart on a surprise round by 3 archers that spawn 8 squares away but are still in range.

[fallen]

matrim - are you packing elemental resistance?

You are traveling through Krete swamps. They are pretty dominant in their area in spot dice.

[matrim]

I am not packing any element resistance. If I gear for that then I lose 8ish points of stealth. Also, 80% of the time it is savage Krete that get the drop on me, the other 2 kinds seem to have less spot (although they still surprise me, just less often). I think you might be overvaluing elemental resist gear. One, I can only get it to about 20 tops at this point. Two, I have to guess whether it will be ice or earth Krete jumping down my throat this time. Three, 6 hits at 120 (take off 30 damage for resist, which is generous seeing as how they only do 50 tops) damage a pop still spells the same end for my thief. Maybe with a Vraes lead with elemental resist I can survive but then I get jumped on 100% of the time and the archers in episode 2 can target the back characters which is far more risky than just the occasional surprise with my thief leading.

[fallen]

matrim - I will take another look at the numbers. As always, thanks for your feedback and your support.

[Officer Genious]

I haven't played recently, but Watershed was the moment I stopped enjoying the game. It simply wasn't fun to fight them. Thanks for looking into it fallen.

[slayernz]

I just got though the watershed ..It wasn't so bad because I was expecting the Krete and Vraes took the lead. I expected him to lose the initiative every time but he never lost more than a couple of hundred hp max.

I would like Krete to have only 7 range but a defensive team using choke points works well

[matrim]

I personally have no issues in watershed. When you get level 30 and max out stealth and they still spot you and shoot you down...that sucks. It takes a lot of sacrifice to get stealth that high and I feel the Krete just put all that effort to waste. It's the mix more than anything. High spot with high range and damage is a combo that can kill you with no reasonable recourse. Possible solutions IMO are: give them 1 AP, gut their spot, lower accuracy considerably, lower the numbers that can spawn to 1, give them a buff move so they use 1 AP on that in the opening round, give them an optional Magic shot like Ratkin shamans that uses all of their AP to AoE but at lower damage.

[fallen]

matrim - thanks for the clarification that this isn't a Watershed issue. It is possible that Krete have some scaling issues in the later levels that we can revisit and smooth out.

[matrim]

Oh yeah, sorry that was not clear. Krete in the Torrent Watershed follow episode 1 shooting rules, hit for 50ish when I have 250 hp, actually miss, and only have pretty average spot. Now that I am level 20 in episode 2, Krete Archers shoot anyone, hit for 150 when I have 350 hp, rarely miss, and have high spot (at this point they are by far the toughest monster group, the scaling issues start this early). At level 30 it is worse, they shoot anyone, hit for 250 when I have 450 health, NEVER miss even though I have cursed them with -11 Ranged accuracy and have 45 dodge dice, and win spot checks 50/50 against 30ish sneak (literally only 1 archer needs to be in range to 2 shot my Mage or Sneak and they get 3 chances to spawn within 8 range). They also dodge 1/3 attacks at that point and their melee dodge 1/2. Scaling may indeed be the issue, this is on nightmare. No other monster group is this problematic. Although on nightmare episode 2 enemies do scale out of control. Examples of scaling issues exist at 28+ in the following zones: Torrent Swamps all Krete in this zone (the opening fight is especially brutal as you open to 3 Archers in range on the other side of tons of difficult terrain with no where to outdistance them), Sea Road before the change over (both the Krete and Ratkin are awful, but the Krete are worse), Gloomer's path (Ratkin spawn just before you ascend, look at the level 41 Deathkin's stats there, he is the toughest single thing I have faced in this game) Orcin and wolves in Bone Pass. All of these areas are extremely difficult (I love a challenge but I can tell you if I had to fight battles like this the whole game I would not play, my characters feel totally ineffective against these enemies) and the difficulty returns to normal in any episode 3 map (Gloomer's path being the only exception). This includes the Underswamps, the Krete there don't really spot me and hit for about 100 less than the Krete in the Torrent Swamps who are 6 levels below them. Just so you know I would say I have lost about 10ish ironman games to these spots alone, getting a group past these areas is the determining factor to whether I make it to the end (2/3 die to a surprise round on Krete or that opening Torrent Swamps battle where I can do nothing but watch 3 archers just pick any target and kill them).

[phaze]

I second Matrim on this having just lost a party in the second round of the Searoad. The enemies are 5 levels above the party and downright mean. My max tank Selen went down in a lost stealth round against Savage Krete hitting her 5 out of 6 times. Even with a high stealth character (most of my parties), I utterly dread some of the overland maps as they repopulate. The enemies are typically much more dangerous than the quests enemies. Something seems off with the scaling at a few maps.

Elementals resistance is a nice thought, but I'll confess, that items with resists are almost never used in my parties. I rely on PfS and PW. The answer is that since builds require synergy in all spots, I can't make my Dodge tank worse by swapping gear out so casually.

Part of the reason I played Selen of Tamilin is purely due to the added HP pool as that may mean surviving one more hit from a range character.

[fallen]

Dec 15, 2016 6:55:37 GMT -5 phaze said:

I second Matrim on this having just lost a party in the second round of the Searoad. The enemies are 5 levels above the party and downright mean.

This has nothing to do with Krete and everything to do with your currently level and which of the multiple instances of the Sea Road you are in. Can you share some details? What is your story position related to Fang, Granthorn visits, the fast travel option being open, and your level?

[phaze]

I can share the info when not at work and have more time.

A quick point though, that the Krete on the sea road are incredibly dangerous at all points of the game because of their design. one can literally max a battle style, stealth, avoidance, etc. and just be ineffective. those Krete have have high spot, accuracy, range, damage, and also high defense. The combination is lethal at all points of the game and leaves players few strategies to cope.

[fallen]

Dec 15, 2016 13:11:29 GMT -5 phaze said:

I can share the info when not at work and have more time.

A quick point though, that the Krete on the sea road are incredibly dangerous at all points of the game because of their design. one can literally max a battle style, stealth, avoidance, etc. and just be ineffective. those Krete have have high spot, accuracy, range, damage, and also high defense. The combination is lethal at all points of the game and leaves players few strategies to cope.

Interesting. Would love to hear the data about the levels. 5 levels ahead is a big indicator.

I recently took my Nightmare mid-E2 group through the Sea Road and do not remember the Krete being challenging at all, but everyone build's groups differently.