The Krete Kompromise!

[matrim]

So the Krete should be challenging at that point, you might miss it in one playthrough for a variety of reasons. I suspect it is because you did not get spotted by a group with archers, this is the deadly scenario. Once you get by the possible surprise round they are merely tough to hit and hit hard but you can always run back. Where they become really tough is Level 28+ (so they're 33+), uncapped episode 2 zones see the mobs (the Krete are the most noticeable but it affects all mobs) scaling into levels of offense that are extremely difficult to defend against (tank getting hit by melee 1/2 or 1/3 attacks and archers hitting 100% vs the 1/20 from just a few levels earlier or in episode 3 zones at the same level) and levels of defense that are hard to overcome (hitting only 1/3 attacks against melee and 1/2 against archers fully cursed vs 17/20 of just a few levels ago or at the same level in episode 3 zones). It is very obvious that they are much harder than intended. Can you not make a group at level 35 on nightmare and fight a Krete battle in Sea Road and then fight one in Underswamps and compare them? It should be immediately apparent in that the Sea Road Krete will be 2ish levels higher and do 100s of points more in damage, never miss, and get hit rarely. Their spot will also be significantly higher, more than the 2 levels should account for.

[fallen]

Thanks for the specific request. It's on my list to look at.

[phaze]

So...since there there so many choices in the game, I'll try to lay-out major points that may influence this area.

One, the Sea Road Krete are very challenging and loosing stealth can mean instant death despite very well developed tanks given their range of attack and damage capacity.

For story choices, I typically explore the Darkmoss first in Ep 2, clear general areas for treasure and a run to Granthorn. I do the side quests but leave the Underforge for later. I loop up north to clear the maps and all quests through the Hunting Lodge. Then open Ep 3 to access CoD weapons and generally clear the first map for great loot odds. I then clear Ghola. Finally, I loop back south reclearing all overland maps. This is where the Darkmoss and Seared increase in difficulty. Both contain enemies 5 levels above the party. Typically I am about lvl 29-30 at this point. Enemies are 5 levels ahead. The increase in challenge is very noticeable, especially with the Krete and Ratkin. Danger is not an issue but perhaps the sudden shift in difficulty is as these enemies are much more accurate and harder to hit and hit very hard. As the Darkmoss only has two Krete battles, generally it isn't an issue. Searoad has many more and is deadlier for this reason. The one area where you can triple pull 3 Krete battles can be insane if you mistep.

As Matrim has well articulated the battles and issues therein, I have little more to say on that.

I would say that overall though, there are maps in the game, whether it is a level issue or that enemies are stronger versions, where the difficulty shifts very rapidly catching people by surprise. I think the Krete, as some of the toughest enemies of the game are more noticeable and deadly as a result. Groomer's path is one such area. The first clear through (having just completed this) the enemies are 5 levels above and the second clear through they are 6 levels above the party. The Ratkin fight is nail biting as all of a sudden your main tank can't defend as expected and your damage dealers lose impact as they can't hit effectively.

Having had multiple play throughs, I generally can anticipate really hard maps. I guess it is a question of what is a fair danger. I really like the challenges overall and think most of the game is really, really well developed for progressing through at a smooth pace. This is a major feat given the sheer number of choices players can make in the game over Ep 2, 3, and 4.

Overall, I would say there is a gap between overland map enemies and quest enemies. The Fang is straightforward as is the Storm Brothers for enemy difficulty I find. It is always a surprise when overland map enemies tear into your party. Sometimes wolves and dogs are far more deadly for their unexpected accuracy that slices through your main tank like a hot knife through butter.

[fallen]

In the next release, some of the Krete type's will have lower spot checks. Most Krete groups will have lower average spot. The more elite ones will not be as affected.

The non-magical archers have had their range reduced to 6.

To return to the topic of Resistance, the Krete archers do more 30% magical damage than they do physical damage. This changes as they scale (physical will catch up) but still very significant amount of the damage you are taking is magical.

[achilles73]

I agree that Kretes ought to be nerfed. They seem disproportionally tougher than all other mob tyoes I have encountered in the game - by far.

[phaze]

Awesome! Always looking for balance versus challenge. Nightmare shouldn't be a walk in the park.

I am confused by the comment on elemental damage. Are you saying that the Krete were changed to do more elemental damage such that it is 30% more than physical with the change, or that currently the Krete do 30% more elemental damage than physical?

If it is the latter, than I fundamentally perplexed in looking at the damage descriptors. I have neve seen an enemy do more elemental damage than physical off the top of my head.

[fallen]

Dec 31, 2016 17:28:12 GMT -5 phaze said:

I am confused by the comment on elemental damage. Are you saying that the Krete were changed to do more elemental damage such that it is 30% more than physical with the change, or that currently the Krete do 30% more elemental damage than physical?

If it is the latter, than I fundamentally perplexed in looking at the damage descriptors. I have neve seen an enemy do more elemental damage than physical off the top of my head.

I am saying that Krete in that level range have always done 30% more elemental damage than physical. As they scale physical will catch up.

It is the reason I have mentioned increasing Elemental Resistance so many times.

[phaze]

Can you provide some in game mathematical examples?

The numbers I see on the display screen for monster elemental damage, including Krete, would never convince me to opt for elemental resist except for those enemies that deal all types of elemental damage.

I can't recall ever seeing Krete doing more elemental damage than physical.

Is there a display bug?

You've always talked about raising resists, I have always been puzzled as the on screen numbers never made sense to me as a rationale to choose resists on equipment ever.

[fallen]

phaze - not sure, I've always seen the Damages printed correctly. Not sure ... ? A level 24 Krete Gaen Tribe Archer causes up to 50 physical damage and 85 earth damage (unchanged with recent update). An Aqik causes up to 50 physical and 85 Ice Dmg. Therefore, it is wise to consider Resistances when fighting Krete.

[phaze]

What!? Whoa! That is simply not what I am seeing at all on my game. I would say that I typically see physical damage around 80-100 and elemental damage at 20 or 40.

I have a party starting Red Hill Keep and may enter Ep in two weeks or so for screen sheets of Ep 2 Krete that I see.

Your stated numbers don't mesh with my game experience/display at all.

Now I am really confused about this. These numbers I have experienced have been consistent over the game since I started playing and could reach Ep 2 content.

Something seems off.

[wascalwywabbit]

Just did a quick boost in on my old Amazon version (4.2.33) and can confirm phaze numbers for lvl 15 Gaen tribe in Kern's End.

Does upto 80 dmg, causes 20 earth dmg.

[fallen]

Guess we're just talking about different monsters? See my post -- level 24 Krete

[wascalwywabbit]

Dec 31, 2016 22:28:12 GMT -5 fallen said:

Guess we're just talking about different monsters? See my post -- level 24 Krete

24 is not easy for me to test, but lvl 19 say 20 earth as well, total dmg goes up to 100-110

[phaze]

fallen

While I can't recall the specific numbers off the top of head, I absolutely guarantee you that I have never seen a Krete with a damage display that you state here. A lvl 24 Gaen Triber Archer would likely be seen in the dark moss and sea road in Ep 2. I have played those areas so many times, and always the Krete ranged attackers do majority physical damage with a smattering of elemental damage.

If needed, I'll screen shot every Krete battle in Ep 2, but my play experience based on the game display I see simply doesn't match what your stating. Maybe matrim and a few others can chime in as well to validate?

[fallen]

Dec 31, 2016 22:35:42 GMT -5 phaze said:

off the top of head, I absolutely guarantee

Ok! Thanks for the details. I'll keep trying to figure out what is going on. Just looking at the monster roster here and the numbers.

Any extra details you can provide are appreciated.