dagger
Consul
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Post by dagger on Jan 4, 2017 1:06:09 GMT -5
Damn! I died with group two on hard. I made it to #4 on the leaderboard though so...not all bad. What I really need to understand though is this stealth thing. I carelessly turned a corner without sighting ahead and Tamilin lost her stealth check and got slammed three times by one of those stupid Spider Initiate Cultist guys. Ouch, ouch, and then feel no pain cuz I'm dead. So, I have a few questions....
1) How do you switch around the order of your people when you come out of glom? Is there a way to make it so I can run around with Tamilin as my person in glom but then Vraes is first in line when glom ends?
2) Who gets the stealth check when you enter a battle without being in glom? For instance, if I have Tamilin as my leader in glom but I approach a battle unglommed with Vraes in front, will the stealth check still go against Tamilin or will it go to the group member who triggers the battle?
3) It's really annoying to run around with Vraes as my leader in glom and then have to switch to Tamilin over and over again to either Farsight ahead or unlock chests. As a suggestion and for future reference, it would be nice if all characters at least had the default one Talent to unlock level 1 locks.
4) Is there any way to "always" win the stealth check? I mean, if I dedicate Tamilin to being stealthed up as high as I can get her with gear and Blacknight 10 will I win 100% of stealth checks or is there still a chance I can lose to an "unlucky" roll? What is the mechanic behind stealth?
And a couple comments...this game rocks! Thank you for all the effort and work you guys (and gals?) continue to put into this. It totally reminds me of the game Dark Heart of Uukrul that I played 20-30 years ago (was it really that long ago, holy #$*@)!!! That was my first real foray into RPGs and I've been hooked ever since. Like that was to me at the time, your game is very immersive and super fun! I'm constantly thrilled to face new and unique enemies around every turn. I'm not going to lie to you, I'm a little tired of the spider monkeys at this point but I'm almost through the Underforge so I'm thinking they'll go away when I've finally killed all 96,312 of them you've set against me. :-) It truly is a great game. My Steam review is accurate.
Comment 2....I love the leaderboards on Steam and I think its especially cool that the "no deaths" leaderboards take your score when you die and post it while allowing you to continue "scoring" on the classic leaderboard afterwords. Nice touch.
And another suggestion...I like the little experience bonuses you get for doing little things or finding certain things during the game. They really add to the depth of the story. To that end, I'd like to see more of them with maybe some higher experience rewards. You could also make them specific to certain characters. Tamilin gets 250 (and the other three get 25XP) for finding an old thieves cache in the caverns somewhere...or...Kyera gets 400 (and the other three get 40) for being able to read a lost temple manuscript from before the Shattering, etc, etc... Obviously your plate is probably pretty full doing what you're doing but...just thoughts I've had in the 200 hrs I've got into your game over the last month. I think I suggested something of the sort on a Steam forum.
Thanks again for the great game! I'm having a blast and will continue to hack my way through. I can't wait to try the other characters at some point but...I'm thinking I'm going to be at about 500 hours by the time I get done with this run. I think there's still an outside world out there but I haven't checked in a while...
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Post by achilles73 on Jan 4, 2017 2:02:35 GMT -5
Damn! I died with group two on hard. I made it to #4 on the leaderboard though so...not all bad. What I really need to understand though is this stealth thing. I carelessly turned a corner without sighting ahead and Tamilin lost her stealth check and got slammed three times by one of those stupid Spider Initiate Cultist guys. Ouch, ouch, and then feel no pain cuz I'm dead. So, I have a few questions.... 1) How do you switch around the order of your people when you come out of glom? Is there a way to make it so I can run around with Tamilin as my person in glom but then Vraes is first in line when glom ends? 2) Who gets the stealth check when you enter a battle without being in glom? For instance, if I have Tamilin as my leader in glom but I approach a battle unglommed with Vraes in front, will the stealth check still go against Tamilin or will it go to the group member who triggers the battle? 3) It's really annoying to run around with Vraes as my leader in glom and then have to switch to Tamilin over and over again to either Farsight ahead or unlock chests. As a suggestion and for future reference, it would be nice if all characters at least had the default one Talent to unlock level 1 locks. 4) Is there any way to "always" win the stealth check? I mean, if I dedicate Tamilin to being stealthed up as high as I can get her with gear and Blacknight 10 will I win 100% of stealth checks or is there still a chance I can lose to an "unlucky" roll? What is the mechanic behind stealth? And a couple comments...this game rocks! Thank you for all the effort and work you guys (and gals?) continue to put into this. It totally reminds me of the game Dark Heart of Uukrul that I played 20-30 years ago (was it really that long ago, holy #$*@)!!! That was my first real foray into RPGs and I've been hooked ever since. Like that was to me at the time, your game is very immersive and super fun! I'm constantly thrilled to face new and unique enemies around every turn. I'm not going to lie to you, I'm a little tired of the spider monkeys at this point but I'm almost through the Underforge so I'm thinking they'll go away when I've finally killed all 96,312 of them you've set against me. :-) It truly is a great game. My Steam review is accurate. Comment 2....I love the leaderboards on Steam and I think its especially cool that the "no deaths" leaderboards take your score when you die and post it while allowing you to continue "scoring" on the classic leaderboard afterwords. Nice touch. And another suggestion...I like the little experience bonuses you get for doing little things or finding certain things during the game. They really add to the depth of the story. To that end, I'd like to see more of them with maybe some higher experience rewards. You could also make them specific to certain characters. Tamilin gets 250 (and the other three get 25XP) for finding an old thieves cache in the caverns somewhere...or...Kyera gets 400 (and the other three get 40) for being able to read a lost temple manuscript from before the Shattering, etc, etc... Obviously your plate is probably pretty full doing what you're doing but...just thoughts I've had in the 200 hrs I've got into your game over the last month. I think I suggested something of the sort on a Steam forum. Thanks again for the great game! I'm having a blast and will continue to hack my way through. I can't wait to try the other characters at some point but...I'm thinking I'm going to be at about 500 hours by the time I get done with this run. I think there's still an outside world out there but I haven't checked in a while... I am a newb myself, and I can't answer most of your specific questions. However, I would strongly suggest that you use Selen, rather than Tamlin, as your stealth character if you are frequently running into situations where Tamlin is vulnerable after losing her stealth roll. This is precisely because there is no guarantee of winning every stealth roll, and you are bound to lose a few, even with the highest stealth rating. And I recommend Selen, because she is far more sturdier (in fact, she can achieve a higher raw Dodge/Parry rating than even the putative tanks like Vrase and Kincaid), and thus will easily survive even if she is surrounded by a bunch of Orc gang-bangers. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 2:06:20 GMT -5
Tam is vulnerable to melee especially, ranged she's about as good as Selen, maybe a scant better...
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Post by achilles73 on Jan 4, 2017 2:09:08 GMT -5
Tam is vulnerable to melee especially, ranged she's about as good as Selen, maybe a scant better... Selen's survivability and versatility (she is equally useful as ranged and melee - and can even hybrid well at later levels) make her such an overwhelmingly superior choice at least for beginners, I think. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 2:17:46 GMT -5
Tam is vulnerable to melee especially, ranged she's about as good as Selen, maybe a scant better... Selen's survivability and versatility (she is equally useful as ranged and melee - and can even hybrid well at later levels) make her such an overwhelmingly superior choice at least for beginners, I think. Maybe If rely mostly on ToS as your primary ap curse (a nigh pro lvl tactic), but if you keep your distance and move slower (less in your face with melee) she does alright.  |
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dagger
Consul
[ Patreon ]
Posts: 114
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Post by dagger on Jan 4, 2017 2:20:08 GMT -5
I like my team to this point and I'll never make it through this game if I keep starting over so....I'm going to stick with Tamilin for now. I plan on playing other combos down the road to see what they all can do but, for now, Tamilin's my thief. I do want to understand the stealth mechanics better though.....so if somebody can help me out there I'd appreciate it. Thank you!
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 2:23:56 GMT -5
I like my team to this point and I'll never make it through this game if I keep starting over so....I'm going to stick with Tamilin for now. I plan on playing other combos down the road to see what they all can do but, for now, Tamilin's my thief. I do want to understand the stealth mechanics better though.....so if somebody can help me out there I'd appreciate it. Thank you! Most of the game I believe matching your stealth points from skill, gear and talent combined to your lvl is recommended for mostly reliable success, the higher above your level the more perfect stealth win will be. You must lead with a stealth char. sneak or Kincaid. No amount of stealth gear will work on a char with no stealth skill AFAIK. |
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Post by achilles73 on Jan 4, 2017 2:27:00 GMT -5
I like my team to this point and I'll never make it through this game if I keep starting over so....I'm going to stick with Tamilin for now. I plan on playing other combos down the road to see what they all can do but, for now, Tamilin's my thief. I do want to understand the stealth mechanics better though.....so if somebody can help me out there I'd appreciate it. Thank you! I think there is no complex mechanic other than the higher your stealth score, the better your chance of winning the stealth roll. But you can never achieve 100 percent chance, so you lose even with a very high stealth score sometimes. And once that happens, Tamlin is screwed if she has too many enemies adjacent to her. This is apparently how several people have lost Nightmare ironman games. Selen doesn't worry about this, since she can tank as well as the main tanks. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 2:39:26 GMT -5
Every point of stealth is a digital die (rng 1-10), half the die is success the the other half failure. The more dice/points of stealth you have the more chance for multiple successes.
It's your stealth dice vs the enemy's 'spot' dice. Whoever wins the most dice rolls on the success side wins initiative.
Spider host initiates and Krete are known to have unusually high spot.
At least that's what I recall about it from hanging around the forums here...
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Jan 4, 2017 3:08:48 GMT -5
Yeah stealth needs to be pretty dedicated to win almost 100%. Typical mobs that will beat your stealth are Spiders, Krete, Cultists, and Ratkin. Any time I am in an area with these mobs I put a stealth increasing item on my lead. In Underforge I am sitting at 35 stealth and lost 1 check (with a spider host, hit Tamilin for 300, fortunately spawned far enough away to only get 2 attacks in, the second missed). 35 stealth will get you through battles with around a 99% success. The 1% just pray you do not lose to something that can 1 shot you. A trick I like to do is string battles together in dangerous areas. You do no checks if you are in battle and trigger the fight. The tricky thing is making sure you have AP with the triggering character to back away from the spawn. I have made a photo guide with a picture of where battles spawn so you can plan that out. Also Tamilin and Selen are pretty even leads as far as being surprised by ranged (they get similar dodge levels) but against melee (so Deathkin, Spiders, or Spider Hosts) Selen is definitely safer. What this means is that with Tamilin stealth cannot be ignored but with Selen you can go lighter on it in favour of her defense. Her stealth wins dip to 95% around but she would need to get really unlucky on the opening round to get 1 shot.
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dagger
Consul
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Posts: 114
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Post by dagger on Jan 4, 2017 3:16:18 GMT -5
Good info, thank you! So basically the only way to "win" stealth is to have the thief/rogue character as your leader. Otherwise, the other characters just need to weather the first turn regardless. Is that right?
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 3:22:34 GMT -5
Good info, thank you! So basically the only way to "win" stealth is to have the thief/rogue character as your leader. Otherwise, the other characters just need to weather the first turn regardless. Is that right? Kincaid also has stealth skill and so can win stealth and benefit from stealth gear. He has no stealth talents though. |
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Post by achilles73 on Jan 4, 2017 3:32:55 GMT -5
Good info, thank you! So basically the only way to "win" stealth is to have the thief/rogue character as your leader. Otherwise, the other characters just need to weather the first turn regardless. Is that right? Kincaid also has stealth skill and so can win stealth and benefit from stealth gear. He has no stealth talents though. This would be super-counterproductive, I'd think. As you say, he has no talents that enhances his stealth, and gear alone won't get him high enough to be consistent - not to mention that that would likely hamstring his tank/damage role, too. |
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Jan 4, 2017 3:37:52 GMT -5
Yes, without stealth you need to weather the first round. I can tell you that it would be virtually impossible to ironman a game without stealth. In episode 2 and beyond archers can target any character in range and the Krete in particular can hit things in behind Vraes/Kincaid/whoever. They will get 2-3 shots and likely kill anything they hit 2 times. On nightmare this is a death sentence and you have to risk it every fight. Not even counting that, Vraes would fall to some battles first round as well (Spider Host Initiates shoot 3 times for 300 damage, on top of the other initiates they come with that will all shoot, Ogre Mages hit for 500 and get 3 shots on top of the Ogre Axe throwers). It's hard for Kincaid to get high stealth numbers but it can be done, just be prepared to lose stealth about 50% even with good stealth focus (and the stealth talents are really amazing anyway so why would you not build them). If you are interested in ironmaning this is a part of the game you must gear towards (one of the only things really forced upon a player). Good guideline if stealth = your level you will win 95% of stealth checks (more stealth has dramatically diminishing returns but I still invest heavily because 1 bad stealth roll can be the end of an ironman, so having 5 more stealth than your level increases success to 98% and that is 3 out of 100 encounters that you don't need to worry about). This breaks down at about level 30, 30 stealth is still winning me stealth virtually 100% of the time at level 51.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Jan 4, 2017 3:40:15 GMT -5
Kincaid also has stealth skill and so can win stealth and benefit from stealth gear. He has no stealth talents though. This would be super-counterproductive, I'd think. As you say, he has no talents that enhances his stealth, and gear alone won't get him high enough to be consistent - not to mention that that would likely hamstring his tank/damage role, too. His lack of a stealth talent is an issue, though there is good gear in the game. Another issue is it places far sight/sly look back I think, though the new party order list possibilities ameliorate that. If you have Tam though, and want stealth lead with parry par excellence, then Kincaid can do the trick. |
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