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Post by johndramey on Feb 8, 2017 20:06:35 GMT -5
fallen, I'd be happy to. I'll stick it in the tips sub-form, and try to keep it updated. Is it alright if I used the info gleaned from that spreadsheet Cory posted? It does have a ton of math in it, and I don't want to break your system wide open for everyone against your wills.
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Post by fallen on Feb 8, 2017 20:10:36 GMT -5
johndramey - use any of the math you find on this thread, the link to the spreadsheet, or any data you want to find there. Please do! All the better to train the next generation of merchant kings!
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Post by johndramey on Feb 8, 2017 20:13:43 GMT -5
I'm at work and finishing up some of my work, but once that's done I'll try to write up a basic guide and get it posted. Who needs money, eh?!
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Post by fallen on Feb 8, 2017 20:20:45 GMT -5
I'm at work and finishing up some of my work, but once that's done I'll try to write up a basic guide and get it posted. Who needs money, eh?! When you can have Credits, oh so many Credits! |
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Post by tenbsmith on Feb 8, 2017 20:46:33 GMT -5
johndramey said, "when you buy a good, take away 2 "levels" in your mind. That is what you can sell at and still turn a small profit. For example, buy at C+, you can safely sell at C-. Buy at D, even an F sell will turn a tiny profit." I thought the lower letter grade you bought at, the higher letter grade you had to sell at to make a profit.
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Post by fallen on Feb 8, 2017 21:14:50 GMT -5
tenbsmith - no, each A-F scale is relative to the trading action you are taking (buy/sell). What I am saying is, the best is to buy something from A+ Supply and sell it into A+ Demand. That means, the mining world where you got the ores has a booming mining business and can sell the stuff cheap (A+ supply) and the roaring refinery world where you are selling the ore has a dragon's hunger for gold, they waaaaaant the metals (A+ demand).
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Post by johndramey on Feb 8, 2017 21:24:32 GMT -5
tenbsmith , not quite. This is going to get complicated, but I'll try to explain things with some math. The supply/demand scale is made up of 20 steps, starting at +10 (A+ supply) and ending at -10 (A+ demand). F is 0, which means F is the exact average price. Supply side ----------------------------------------------------------------Demand side
A+ A A- B+ B B- C+ C C- D F D C- C C+ B- B B+ A- A A+ {Grade of trade}
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9 -10 {Number score}
.68 .69 .7 .71 .74 .77 .8 .85 .9 .95 1 1.05 1.15 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.45 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.75{Price mod} When you want to (basically) calculate if a trade is decent, you can take the value of the letter grade of your purchase, subtract 2 from it, and that will give you the letter grade you can sell at and still get a decent profit. Looking at the numbers. So, X - 2 = your "safe" sell rank. X = the rank you are buying at. e.g., assume a purchase at C+. X = C+ supply = 4 4 - 2 = 2 2 = C- This will give you a 35% profit per unit.
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Post by grävling on Feb 8, 2017 21:27:24 GMT -5
So do you have things like import fees? (In order to support local industry, we are sticking a whopping 200% sales tax on off-faction crop harvesters. Remember to Always Buy De Valtos!) Without such market interventions, isn't attractiveness to buy just the simple inverse of attractiveness to sell (so you would only need one letter?)
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Post by johndramey on Feb 8, 2017 21:38:44 GMT -5
grävling, I don't know for sure, but you gotta keep in mind that all of this math is just basic stuff. I'm pretty sure that economy score, trade permits, rep, population, negotiation skill, etc. all come into the equation. That stuff is too complex for me, so I stick with basic stuff like what is a decently safe trade. I'm not much of a power gamer. That said, we do only have one letter? It's just on a sliding scale.
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Post by fallen on Feb 8, 2017 21:46:23 GMT -5
So do you have things like import fees? (In order to support local industry, we are sticking a whopping 200% sales tax on off-faction crop harvesters. Remember to Always Buy De Valtos!) Without such market interventions, isn't attractiveness to buy just the simple inverse of attractiveness to sell (so you would only need one letter?) In the Star Traders exchanges, the are tariffs and taxes, absolutely. We boil the data down into a single letter for the player. |
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Post by grävling on Feb 9, 2017 0:16:14 GMT -5
grävling, I don't know for sure, but you gotta keep in mind that all of this math is just basic stuff. I'm pretty sure that economy score, trade permits, rep, population, negotiation skill, etc. all come into the equation. That stuff is too complex for me, so I stick with basic stuff like what is a decently safe trade. I'm not much of a power gamer. That said, we do only have one letter? It's just on a sliding scale. People who have impossible merchants working count as power gamers to me. I just wanted to know if, for instance, the buying rate of a good is A+ you would know that the selling rate was F, so that one letter could tell you both the selling and the buying rate. Looks like the numbers are independent, so the answer to that is 'no' though there is a rough relationship in that goods that are cheap to buy at place X don't sell for very much there, and vice versa, as expected. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 0:29:34 GMT -5
There are taxes, tariffs and import fees, as well as bans on certain Faction goods. these are all represented as rumors, and the player is warned about them before buy/selling the product (or they will be.)
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Post by johndramey on Feb 9, 2017 1:15:34 GMT -5
People who have impossible merchants working count as power gamers to me. I just wanted to know if, for instance, the buying rate of a good is A+ you would know that the selling rate was F, so that one letter could tell you both the selling and the buying rate. Looks like the numbers are independent, so the answer to that is 'no' though there is a rough relationship in that goods that are cheap to buy at place X don't sell for very much there, and vice versa, as expected. Well thanks!  I see what you wanted. The letter is, in essence, telling you both things. A planet with a high supply will have no demand, and the same (generally) holds true for the opposite. Of course, there are certain products that just aren't wanted on each planet, but you get the idea. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 9, 2017 1:41:17 GMT -5
If we all agree that A+ to F isn't a good scale, we can do something else. The -10 to +10 scale is what matters internally, we can label it whatever we want.
Internally these values are tracked out to -10.0000 to 10.0000 to a Zone might have a demand of +5.7349 and that would price like it was +6 but once it lost 0.2350 it would price as +5. That's minor details, but it is how it works.
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Post by johndramey on Feb 9, 2017 2:28:03 GMT -5
Cory Trese, I'm totally comfortable with the A+ to F, I think the issue some people are having is that they don't see it as a mirrored scale. That's why I am making the thread. To me (and I'm guessing you as well), it was immediately obvious that A+ supply = price is low for me to buy and A+ demand = price is high for them to buy. I think another issue people are having is that the trade system is actually really, really kind to the player. People see a C+ purchase and immediately think that it's going to be hard to make money, when in actuality a C+ purchase will still net you pretty gains as long as you sell above a certain level. Basically, it seems like the only way that you can really bomb a trade and lose money is if you buy below B or so and sell at F-. I'm curious what F-'s modifier is? I'm still able to turn a profit with certain high supply purchase sold at F-.
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