What to call "Black Market" ?

[grävling]

I would think that Pirates who have holds full of loot and no permits would be interested in such places.

Will this be a place where intel can be exchanged as well, or just goods?

Just how organised is organised crime in the ST world?

[fallen]

It is possible that Pirates could be interested. But they might also hold Permits and just go to the Exchange.

This is a place to sell goods illegally.

Criminal elements are mostly local to the worlds on which they are operating, and you will need to know a local criminal element to enter the Smuggler's Market.

[Officer Genious]

I like Smuggler's Market and Black Market even better. There's no reason to change Black Market, really-- it's a pretty precise description.

[ChocoCrowbar]

I prefer Black Market to Smuggler's Market.

Makes it seem anyone is welcomed, instead of just smugglers.

[grävling]

Welcome to the Underground Economy?

[johndramey]

I have no problems with Black Market, but if you really wanted to change it I'm with grävling and think "underground" would be good. So, Underground market, underground exchange, or underground economy.

[grävling]

Actually cottie83 suggested Underground before I did.

Another way to go is with 'Hidden' or'Secret'. 'The Hidden Marketplace'. Or even 'The Private Market'. or 'The Independent Market' (though that may confuse with the Independent Faction). I get that the Government may go around referring to whatever we decide to call it as 'The Black Market' or 'Smugglers' Dens', but the question is, what do the Smugglers think of this? I could see them finding these terms derrogatrory.

[johndramey]

Ah, well then I stand corrected, I *was* with cottie83.

Was, because grävling made a point that changed my mind. Regardless of the fact that it is a black market, the people who take part in it would probably not call it the black market. I'd imagine they'd have a more slangy term for it, so why don't we think of that? After all, we might be partaking in a black market, but I seriously doubt some captain is going to fly into port and start asking around for the black market. (S)he might ask around for a local contact into "The Bazaar," "The Interchange," or something like that.

[athios]

I feel like it's might be a good/fun idea to come up with a Star Traders specific slang term for this? That would be very cool.

[MintDragon]

Dark Market is the cool internet term media throws around (Silk Road type sites and all...)

[bobc]

If we are looking for a more colloquial term that those in the know might use, how about The Marketplace?  This is one of several suggestions floated by contributor over in the ST2 Slogan thread, and I think it is pretty good.

[resistor]

I don't like the term "Underground Market", because just because something is underground doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal. Or at least, that is not how it sounds to my mind. I also don't like "Smugglers' Dens" or "Bazaar" because those sound too specific, and I imagine the way criminals operate would vary greatly by world.

"Black Market" is, in my opinion, the best name, because it is simultaneously vague about the way it operates, and descriptive of its criminality.

[cottie83]

I like athios' idea of a star traders specific name I just can't think of one that I like particularly. It was Cory who came up with underground first I just put it together with market after exchange was ruled out.

[grävling]

Is this thing supposed to be star traders only? Or do criminal gravs from the local world also sell goods -- possibly stolen goods -- there?

[grävling]

Historically, people using the black market have also wanted to call it something that was linguistically deniable. The original black market, was a Scottish market. Blacks were cows. (Cows being completely black in Scotland at the time.) So the black market was a cow market. Cattle rustling was big business in those days, and the black market was where you paid to ransom your cows back from the people who stole them from you. This is the origin of the term blackmail, as well, which didn't originally have to do with writing that you didn't want revealed to the public but from the Old English mal "lawsuit, terms, bargaining, agreement," -- the original blackmail was any sort of illegal agreement, not just 'money for the promise not to publish'. It started out as agreements for the return of cattle.

(Not that blackmailing didn't _happen_ before such times -- I am sure it did, it was just called something else, like extortion.)

The more modern usage of 'black market' dates from WW2 in the German speaking countries, but there it is said that they got the term from the English, so their black markets were originally cow-markets as well.

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So we are back to, what do the users of the <whatever we call them> need, in terms of deniability?

I'd like to make a sharp deal.
I'd like to have an edge.
He's a real sharpie.
Are you living on the edge?

This sort of thing is how you might refer to a secret, hidden black market you want information about, in such a way that doesn't scream AND I WANT TO PERFORM AN ILLEGAL TRANSACTION. In a society where such things need be kept secret, or at least quasi-secret, such terms will exist.

But I don't know if the ST society is such a place.