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Post by grävling on Feb 28, 2012 6:10:18 GMT -5
Assuming you have 0DV, so that losing XP for being Cyber is not an issue, you get the same amount of XP whether your assasination mission succeeds or fails. Aside from getting killed, there are 3 outcomes for this mission. They all give the same experience.
Type 1: kill your target and escape out of there
You go to the destination. You press 'You know why I am here'. You immediately gain 1XP.
You race to your target, you defeat him in battle. Then you leave the scene, using escape, leaving his buddies standing around. You get the message 'job completed', but no XP at that time. You then get 1 XP when you successfully perform the 'tactical escape' -- as it is shown on the victory screen. Total XP gained, 2.
Type 2: kill everybody
You go to the destination. You press 'You know why I am here'. You immediately gain 1XP.
You kill everybody. You get the message 'job completed', but no XP at that time. You then
get 1 XP for 'Victory' from the Victory Screen. Total XP gained, 2.
Type 3: run away in a cowardly fashion without even bothering the target
You go to the destination. You press 'You know why I am here'. You immediately gain 1XP.
You immediately escape the screen, leaving your target and all his friends very much alive. 'Ooops, don't mind me, I must have come to the wrong address.' You then get 1 XP when you successfully perform the 'tactical escape' -- as it is shown on the victory screen.
You get told 'job failed'. Total XP gained, 2.
Something seems wrong about that.
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Post by grävling on Feb 28, 2012 7:05:00 GMT -5
Same problem with capture missions, though there escaping when the target is down but his freinds are not should count as a failure, not a success as it does now and gets you the 2 points.
I think that 'tactical escape' needs to be modified, so that you only get points for that when it's an ok part of your mission to escape -- it's an assasination and the target is down already, or it is a random encounter, but not for intimidate or capture missions, or assasinate when the target is still alive. Then it is not a 'tactical escape' but a 'cowardly flees from battle'.
Also I would change it so that people who succeed in negotiaton/threaten missions without entering battle get a special victory screen just for them which gives them more points that just killing everybody would do.
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Post by LordofSyn on Feb 28, 2012 12:30:03 GMT -5
agreed, otherwise why not just make it a bloodbath... I think it is much harder to negotiate/intimidate a situation thanit is to fight it out lasers or not. I believe if you were able to succeed without combat, and it aligns with your Character type, then you should be rewarded in kind.
Anyone can fight it out, win or lose. It takes real talent to disarm a situation just on words, charisma, and negotiation/intimidation.
In other words, it takes a strong person to walk away from a fight, and a stronger person to win the fight without having to resort to battle or combat.
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Post by fallen on Mar 10, 2012 0:19:19 GMT -5
grävling and @los - just working through the normal XP paths first--then we will come back to more specifics. Escort / message / delivery / pickup / data courier - you get the XP and credits without question. [Max 1 XP] Threaten - you get XP and credits if you succeed in the test, only combat if you fail the test. You can gain the normal XP from combat (+1) [Max 1 XP] Negotiate - you get the XP and credits if you succeed in the test, only combat if you fail the test. You can gain the normal XP from combat (+1) [Max 1 XP] Capture - you get XP and credits if you knock out the target and kill / knock out all of the guards. You can get the normal XP for the combat if you escape or just kill everyone (+1). Escaping always fails this contract, giving you only +1 possible. [Max 2 XP] Assassination - you get XP and credits when you kill the target. You get normal XP for the combat if you escape or kill everyone. [Max 2 XP] As a stable baseline to start working on more complexity, does this seem more correct? You are getting a possible +1 XP in cases where you are signing up for combat. As a foundation, it makes more sense to me.
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Post by LordofSyn on Mar 10, 2012 0:33:45 GMT -5
fallen *That looks ok, and that leads me to one question. Do the Archetypes have any bonuses to applicable job types in the pipeline? Given the example I provided above, would a Face get an bonus or modifier or possibly extra roll for +1 xp with the best outcome? Not really a morality bonus, but more like a Role playing bonus for staying within the vein of the character? Does that make sense? These passive bonuses could be unseen and be strictly pass/fail as long as the <AND> logic was secure for whatever variables would be necessary. per archetype , it wouldn't have to be more than one or two variables anyway to keep the logic simple enough to modulate. Just curious.
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Post by fallen on Mar 10, 2012 0:37:28 GMT -5
@los - its definitely a possibility down the line. Right now, each profession gets a monetary bonus from 5% - 20% on jobs that fit into their line of work the best. XP bonuses do not seem like a bad thing to follow on with.
Gotta get the foundation right first =P
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Post by grävling on Mar 10, 2012 2:05:55 GMT -5
This looks better, but I'm trying to think more about those threaten/negpotiate missions. Presumably the Contractor wanted those punks scared/compliant but not dead. Right now it is sensible for a CK with poor negotiation skills to take such jobs, knowing that he or she will fail, because they pay a nice amount of money even if you kill everybody instead of successfully negotiating or threatening them. I think this cash reward should stop. I am wondering if you should get a reputation loss as well with the faction that contracted you (you already lose rep with the faction you end up slaughtering).
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Post by fallen on Mar 10, 2012 9:57:41 GMT -5
With the XP changes in mind, i may need to tweak the payment structure (relative value of types of jobs) because Threaten and Intimidate move into a "do these only if you are sure about your skill" space, as opposed to something you can just pick up and try and still get rewarded for failing.
Thoughts?
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Post by grävling on Mar 10, 2012 17:40:01 GMT -5
Sounds reasonable to me. While you are at it, fix the prices for those 'escort from Streets/Fennian to Blue Ox land' jobs. They were obviously priced when we could do escort missions in a taxi. Now an escort through corps land should be worth a whole lot more.
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Post by LordofSyn on Mar 11, 2012 7:13:46 GMT -5
give the 1 xp roll [check vs. DV] even for failure, you didn't die, and possibly learned something about your failure. or just give it away anyway.
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Post by fallen on Mar 11, 2012 11:23:33 GMT -5
@los - is the suggestion that in the case of Intimidate / Negotiation you should get an XP Roll even if you fail (+1 possible XP for the ensuing combat)?
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Post by LordofSyn on Mar 11, 2012 22:54:42 GMT -5
fallen, no. forgive it but I believe it is set the way I last mentioned. you might get an XP on some missions, even for failure. which is realistic, you do learn more from failure, than you do from success..
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Post by fallen on Mar 12, 2012 0:53:43 GMT -5
@los - thanks for the clarification!
@gravilng - the next release features a bump to the contract prices for all Blue Ox contracts. They are just &%%^ hard to work against! Escort gets special consideration and a more sizeable bump.
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Slide87
Templar
[ * ]
A.S. Roma Lover
Posts: 1,275
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Post by Slide87 on Mar 12, 2012 8:36:09 GMT -5
@gravilng - the next release features a bump to the contract prices for all Blue Ox contracts. They are just &%%^ hard to work against! Escort gets special consideration and a more sizeable bump. Yes Yes Yes,good to know =) |
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Post by absimiliard on Mar 12, 2012 9:45:45 GMT -5
Just noting what I consider an error in Fallen's summation of XP.
I would assert one should NOT think of pickup jobs as worth 1 XP + Cash. They're seeming more like 2 XP + Cash to me.
I get that Fallen is thinking of it as "One pickup job, 1 XP. Then the pickup job turns into a delivery job, which is worth it's own XP." But it's not, since you only get cash for succeeding in the delivery phase. I would again assert that it's not really two separate jobs.
Personally I would categorize pickups as their own type.
Pickup Job: 1 XP, plus 1 XP and cash if you succeed in delivering the package that you picked up in time.
or
Pickup Job: 1 XP, plus a new delivery job. (where a delivery job gets XP + Cash)
Not sure the code support my way of thinking about them, but that's my $.02.
-abs
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