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Post by drspendlove on Oct 26, 2021 13:27:55 GMT -5
What would you think about attaching a 10 turn (1 week) cost to the retrain button? It would slightly put the player at a disadvantage on the XP curve that way. It wouldn't be a fix for total abuse, but it would be a small step to balance the feature. Thoughts?
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Post by slayernz on Oct 26, 2021 14:25:46 GMT -5
number of turns * level? That discourages you from using it when you're higher level
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Post by fallen on Oct 26, 2021 16:30:36 GMT -5
Just an upfront cost as well as the money? I guess we could tack that on.
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 26, 2021 22:00:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd go 10 turns--even 1 turn would have a real impact.
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Post by fallen on Oct 27, 2021 8:39:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd go 10 turns--even 1 turn would have a real impact. Really? |
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 27, 2021 9:13:52 GMT -5
It would absolutely have an impact, but no, not as much. It would discourage me from doing it frivolously, but if I were doing something critical, like queuing ship upgrades, it wouldn't have much effect.
BTW, if you do nerf retraining seriously, it's going to make those ship upgrade talents way less valuable, but they might arguably be broken when I'm getting a 41% discount.
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Post by fallen on Oct 27, 2021 10:43:27 GMT -5
Thx for the extra details.
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 27, 2021 11:15:18 GMT -5
OK, it's kinda of stupid that Talents can save you money on upgrades that take place in the queue, while you're off doing something else.
So here's an idea: make Assistant Installation and Helping Hands cut the time of upgrades, not just the cost. If I'm buying a new ship, I think I mostly will suck it up and queue up all the upgrades at full price (barring a handful of very costly ones), because spending a year in the starport is even more costly--but a shorter upgrade duration would make upgrades in a working ship much more viable (those 7-week installations are painful), and give you a good reason to keep the Talent on the character, rather than resetting to get it when you're buying a new ship.
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 27, 2021 15:23:28 GMT -5
Actually, in the same vein, it would also be cool if contacts who offer discounts for repairs and medical treatment cut the time for those as well (and maybe it should even apply to spice discounts). Once you get past the very early game, the costs of those things are usually irrelevant, but the time they take is very important. I love "Sure Landfall" and "Port Maintenance" for exactly this reason.
Of course, this wouldn't really apply to fuel discounts, since refueling is already virtually instantaneous.
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 27, 2021 16:15:58 GMT -5
number of turns * level? That discourages you from using it when you're higher level I like this. One pleasant side effect is that it makes retrains more costly in exact proportion to how tedious they are to carry out (it's harder to re-select 5 Talents than 1). It also makes early-game mistakes easier to overcome, which would help new players--you could even scale the penalty by difficult level. |
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Post by slayernz on Oct 28, 2021 19:28:34 GMT -5
It also reflects the amount of personal effort your captain would need to take to learn new skills. If it were RL, if you were a novice, then learning something new to novice level wouldn't take too long. How hard is it to learn to plunge a toilet or boil an egg? As you get older you'd take a lot longer to get new talents/skills up where your original skills were. Now it's learning to install a toilet or make a souffle  |
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Post by MTKnife on Oct 29, 2021 8:00:29 GMT -5
Well, I assume they're using some advanced neural programming technique, but sure, same principle would apply, just much faster.  |
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Post by starwarer on Nov 17, 2021 16:23:57 GMT -5
Alternative:
Just attach an XP penalty to the crew being retrained. I think that makes more sense than impeding the rest of the crew’s XP progression.
I know i’d be far less likely to spam it then, but there might still be occasions i’d use it (depending on cost).
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Post by violetmistum on Nov 17, 2021 18:07:33 GMT -5
Personally, I find retraining useful when doing achievements or when recruiting certain crew. Right now, I think it shouldnt be touched. Sure, it does make some achievements a little bit easier i.e. macabre harvest cooldown, Nose for Loot cooldown, etc. I mean before you can retrain you need money (which you have to work for weeks or trade) and docked in a starport. If it ever does get a nerf, Im down for a 1 week cooldown.
I dunno how exactly retraining is done in game so I imagine its a machine where crew gets in, machine activates, crew gets out a newbie unskilled ready to be trained.
just my two cents.
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Post by MTKnife on Nov 18, 2021 13:21:42 GMT -5
The issue with retraining is that it's essentially costless, making it extremely advantageous to do over and over in certain situations--like recruiting good crew--but at the same time it's really, really tedious, esp. at higher levels where you have to remember and re-learn 8 or 10 skills. A good game design shouldn't force you to do something boring in order to play efficiently.
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