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Post by Cory Trese on May 24, 2012 0:03:33 GMT -5
Discuss:
Melee Combat Attacks
Your Melee Attack score is calculated by adding Brawling + Weapon Accuracy.
Your Target's Melee Defense score is calculated by adding Defense + Armor Dodge + Difficulty (PD).
Your Melee Damage is calcuated using Weapon Power.
Your Target's Melee Soak Score is calcuated by adding Armor Deflection + Defense.
The Soak Score is automatically reduced by your Weapon Penetration.
Melee Combat Defense
Your Melee Defense score is calculated by adding Brawling + Armor Dodge.
Your Attacker's Melee Attack Score is calcuated by adding Attack + Weapon Accuracy + Difficulty (PD).
The monster's Melee Damage is calcuated using Weapon Power.
Your Melee Soak Score is calcuated by adding Armor Deflection Protection + Body.
The Soak Score is automatically reduced by attacker's Weapon Penetration. Hardened Armor cannot be reduced below 1 Soak Score.
Ranged Combat Attack
Your Ranged Attack score is calcualted by adding Firearms + Weapon Accuracy.
Your Target's Ranged Defense Score is calcuated by adding Armor Dodge + Defense + Difficulty (PD) + Range Penalty.
Your Ranged Damage is calcuated using Weapon Power.
Your Target's Ranged Soak Score is calcuated by adding Armor Ballistic Protection + Defense.
The Soak Score is automatically reduced by your Weapon Penetration.
Ranged Combat Defense
Your Ranged Defense Score is calcuated by adding Dexterity + Armor Dodge + Attacker's Range Penalty.
Your Attacker's Ranged Attack Score is calcuated by adding Attack + Weapon Accuracy + Difficulty (PD).
The monster's Ranged Damage is calcuated using Weapon Power.
Your Ranged Soak Score is calcuated by adding Armor Ballistic Protection + Body.
The Soak Score is automatically reduced by attacker's Weapon Penetration. Hardened Armor cannot be reduced below 1 Soak Score.
Range Penalties
The Ranged Attack score penalty is equal to the difference between the range to target and the optimal range, squared.
Therefore, if the optimal range is 4 and the target range is 2 the difference is 2. Therefore in this situation the penalty would be 4 (2*2 = 4)
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Post by Cory Trese on May 24, 2012 0:03:52 GMT -5
Difficulty (PD) == Difficulty: Player Disadvantage
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Post by grävling on May 24, 2012 3:42:59 GMT -5
Discuss: Range Penalties The Ranged Attack score penalty is equal to the difference between the range to target and the optimal range, squared. Therefore, if the optimal range is 4 and the target range is 2 the difference is 2. Therefore in this situation the penalty would be 4 (2*2 = 4) I think that the range penalties should be done differently. i.e. if I have a rifle, and I am making a shot which is not at the optimal range, but is somewhat further away, then that shot should be a lot easier than if I am making a shot at something closer to me than my weapon's optimal range. Conversely, if I have a hand gun, then things that are shorter than my optimal range should be easier than things that are longer than my optimal range. And then we should get cyberware that effects our optimal range in ways we can see on the screen (more pink squares) when we aim at something. |
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nemesis
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Post by nemesis on May 24, 2012 4:11:56 GMT -5
So with that setup, dodge armor +5 is better than the uber hard armors that have -3 dodge and nano armors with -5 dodge. Nano armor is only good if the savior kicks in and it would appear that the Mars Kraken Suit with def to ballistics and penetration of 4 with +3 dodge would be the cyber knight's armor of choice. Buy that and get dermal sheath and you're pretty much hard to kill ;D
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koles
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Post by koles on May 24, 2012 5:20:56 GMT -5
all depends how image magnification work - if CK could turn it on and off any time he want - it would be nice thing for alone working sniper but if it work like CK moves with field glasses constantly attached to his eyes - that means that this cyberware is for snipers with bodyguards around him nemesis +5 dodge armors are good for CK with hight dexterity, but it sux when your dex is low and you put exp in others attributes |
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nemesis
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Post by nemesis on May 24, 2012 5:38:39 GMT -5
all depends how image magnification work - if CK could turn it on and off any time he want - it would be nice thing for alone working sniper but if it work like CK moves with field glasses constantly attached to his eyes - that means that this cyberware is for snipers with bodyguards around him nemesis +5 dodge armors are good for CK with hight dexterity, but it sux when your dex is low and you put exp in others attributes True but if you get an additional +5 on top of your dex, its going to be better than getting -5 dodge. The dex score of my main character is 9 and when I wore the -3 dodge with ballistics of 8 and penetration of 7 Mars hard armor I got creamed by Mars security. When I used my Aztek Infiltrator Suit with +5 dodge with ballistics 4 and penetration of 3, my def in combat was bigger. The effect on range and melee defense was noticeable. |
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Post by grävling on May 24, 2012 7:11:38 GMT -5
True but if you get an additional +5 on top of your dex, its going to be better than getting -5 dodge. The dex score of my main character is 9 and when I wore the -3 dodge with ballistics of 8 and penetration of 7 Mars hard armor I got creamed by Mars security. When I used my Aztek Infiltrator Suit with +5 dodge with ballistics 4 and penetration of 3, my def in combat was bigger. The effect on range and melee defense was noticeable. But if your dex is 2, then it doesn't matter if your armour is dodge +5. You are going to dodge (roughly) 0 bullets. They will (practically) never miss. You will be hit (almost) every single time. So hard armour that absorbs the damage will be much better for you. Every 'armour save' you see is a bullet that might have gone through your Agent DX suit and hit you, but, ha! ha! you are in Jaguar armour with a ballistics of 9, and have dermal armour 3. The bullets bounce off you, like Superman, especially if you have enhanced your body in other ways, such as with those steel bones. I also don't see why those that choose to wear high dodge armour would prefer a Krakan suit b:4 d:4 dodge:3 nano-ready, hard, and cost 30875Y to an agent DX suit b:3 d:4 dodge 6, nano-ready, not hard, cost 17425Y you lose 1 point of ballistics, but get 3 of dodge, and it's so very, very, very much cheaper. I think the Kraken suit will be useful when we have to fight underwater, but until then the DX suit is the better option. And until the nano-deployment of Savior medkits works, the Infiltrator suit is an even better option: b:4 d:3 dodge 5, not nano-ready, hard, but only 6075Y |
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nemesis
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Post by nemesis on May 24, 2012 8:17:02 GMT -5
True but if you get an additional +5 on top of your dex, its going to be better than getting -5 dodge. The dex score of my main character is 9 and when I wore the -3 dodge with ballistics of 8 and penetration of 7 Mars hard armor I got creamed by Mars security. When I used my Aztek Infiltrator Suit with +5 dodge with ballistics 4 and penetration of 3, my def in combat was bigger. The effect on range and melee defense was noticeable. But if your dex is 2, then it doesn't matter if your armour is dodge +5. You are going to dodge (roughly) 0 bullets. They will (practically) never miss. You will be hit (almost) every single time. So hard armour that absorbs the damage will be much better for you. Every 'armour save' you see is a bullet that might have gone through your Agent DX suit and hit you, but, ha! ha! you are in Jaguar armour with a ballistics of 9, and have dermal armour 3. The bullets bounce off you, like Superman, especially if you have enhanced your body in other ways, such as with those steel bones. I also don't see why those that choose to wear high dodge armour would prefer a Krakan suit b:4 d:4 dodge:3 nano-ready, hard, and cost 30875Y to an agent DX suit b:3 d:4 dodge 6, nano-ready, not hard, cost 17425Y you lose 1 point of ballistics, but get 3 of dodge, and it's so very, very, very much cheaper. I think the Kraken suit will be useful when we have to fight underwater, but until then the DX suit is the better option. And until the nano-deployment of Savior medkits works, the Infiltrator suit is an even better option: b:4 d:3 dodge 5, not nano-ready, hard, but only 6075Y Took a job from Aztek to assassinate someone in Yakashima territory. Used Mars Hades and when I got shot by a Red Samurai my def was 8. When I went back in for an abduction job, I used my Infiltrator and my def went up to 16 against a Red Samurai. I believe that if you have low dex, dodge armor is the way to go and if you have higher dex, around 15+ maybe, go use Hades Hard armor. Def calculation for range is dexterity + dodge bonus + range penalty and for melee its brawling + dodge bonus. So dodge does affect you big time in combat. |
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nemesis
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Post by nemesis on May 24, 2012 9:08:48 GMT -5
The Kraken Suit is nano ready and is hard with dodge bonus of +3. So the moment nano works with the savior medkit, B:4 P:4 with dodge bonus of +3 is going to be IMHO the best all around armor with a good price.
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Post by Ahab on May 24, 2012 13:50:31 GMT -5
Took a job from Aztek to assassinate someone in Yakashima territory. Used Mars Hades and when I got shot by a Red Samurai my def was 8. When I went back in for an abduction job, I used my Infiltrator and my def went up to 16 against a Red Samurai. I believe that if you have low dex, dodge armor is the way to go and if you have higher dex, around 15+ maybe, go use Hades Hard armor. Def calculation for range is dexterity + dodge bonus + range penalty and for melee its brawling + dodge bonus. So dodge does affect you big time in combat. Don't trust your experiences up to this point. Most of this didn't work before but will suddenly work apparently in the next release. |
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Post by Ahab on May 24, 2012 13:52:01 GMT -5
And until the nano-deployment of Savior medkits works, the Infiltrator suit is an even better option: b:4 d:3 dodge 5, not nano-ready, hard, but only 6075Y I believe in another thread, Cory said that the nano-ready will work in the next release, along with hardening, penetration, dodge, etc. |
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Post by grävling on May 24, 2012 14:02:57 GMT -5
And until the nano-deployment of Savior medkits works, the Infiltrator suit is an even better option: b:4 d:3 dodge 5, not nano-ready, hard, but only 6075Y I believe in another thread, Cory said that the nano-ready will work in the next release, along with hardening, penetration, dodge, etc. Indeed. Then all bets are off as to what the best dressed cyberknight will be wearing. Gosh it will be fun to find out. drooling in anticipation, Thanks Cory! |
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Post by Cory Trese on May 24, 2012 14:29:58 GMT -5
Since Dodge Bonus is in effect camouflage and freedom of movement and such would it make sense to limit the positive bonus to like 50% of Stealth?
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Post by gravismetallum on May 24, 2012 15:13:41 GMT -5
Almost every game with solid mechanics has people limited by the heaviness of armor. Yes @cory, that makes sense.
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Post by grävling on May 24, 2012 15:27:33 GMT -5
One of the confusing things is that there are two things called 'dodge' in this game. One is the passive sort that you do all the time, and which the dodge bonus or penalty on your armour effects. The other is the button 'dodge' which is an action you can do when in combat and reacting to an attack.
I think that it would be a good idea to change one of them -- and the button would be easier -- to 'Evade' so it is clear that they are two different things. I started out believing that the dodge bonus on your armour was related to how well you dodged in combat when you pressed the button -- and since I rarely did that, didn't discover that a high dodge value was a good thing to have until many months after I started playing this game.
Now, which dodge are you talking about here? I think that it makes good sense for the dodge button in combat to be related to your agility, thus to your dexterity, and also your perception skill.
But as for your armour -- Did you ever read the book _Singularity Sky_ by Charles Stross? In it Rachael Mansour has combat armour that she has to exercise in -- but which is a lot faster and more accurate than she would be naturally. This is sort of what I think of when I think of an Agent DX suit and its ilk. I.e. the suit is actually doing the dodging for you, detecting things with it's sensors and reacting.
If it isn't 'dodge bonus' but 'camouflage bonus' that the suit is providing -- then I strongly recommend renaming it. Then making it 's effectiveness dependent on your stealth ability -- if your ability is poor you won't be able to use it effectively makes a lot of sense. But I think that in this case there should be nanowear you can purchase that makes a nano aware camouflague suit do an even better job that what you can buy in the store. And maybe even illegal versions that have an even better version.
This would make the suit more like the 'Darksuits' used by the Official burglars in Walter Jon Williams trilogy about Maijstral the Lord and Burglar -- minus the anti-gravity that let's you fly in them, of course. I would find that a lot of fun.
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