Being saved from death by your amour +medkit

[grävling]

I've been thinking about this new ability to have your armour save you. I am very pleased when this happens to save a runner I have invested in, but I think that the feature takes away the bite that was the real charm about playing brutal. I wonder what others think. I also wonder if it is possible to make this feature a 'runners only' feature -- something in your cyberknight brain surgery means that if you try to use such technology your brain turns into oatmeal, or something.

It occurs to me that I think of this as a feature only for brutal players -- after all, dying isn't that bad when it just means you wake up somewhere, maybe missing some experience. Maybe this is not fair to the not-brutal players though, in which case I apologise.

[absimiliard]

I sort of get your argument. I even think I agree.

I've definitely liked having my knight saved by the nano-medkit. On the other hand this does mean that after I hit a certain bankroll my knights are all immortal, which definitely defeats the purpose of playing on brutal.

Let me ponder it a bit more.

But I incline to agree w. Gravling. (not a real shock in the least)

-abs

[gravismetallum]

Perhaps a skill check required on harder difficultys could be added.

Whoops!, the nano ready medkit was improperly installed. Your dead.

[Cory Trese]

Nano-Medkit fills design goal that is also accomplished with "Escape Shuttle"

In a more hardcore difficulty setting it is possible that your Armor should be destroyed when Nano-Activated by a MedKit ... ?

[nemesis]

My suggestion for the brutal set up is this:

We lower the price for nano-armor because of possible "bugs" like healing only a portion of missing hp or the suit getting destroyed.

Of course, if that will be implemented, cutting the cost of nano armor in brutal to as low as 2/3 of original price might be feasible since it can be "consumed" when using nano medkits.

For those on lower settings, they can keep the set up for nano armor as it currently is right now.

[grävling]

I don't think that 16225 for an Agent DX suit is that much money. Maybe if your Nano-Ready Armor was good for one deployment, and then you had to buy another? I still think that something is missing, and characters become immortal too quickly now. I have a character where as soon as she could afford an Agent DX suit and a 2 job computer went directly to work out of the Bar of Birds. Next upgrade, a 4 job computer. She gets killed once per trip to escort people to Mars Corp. But with 4 people to escort, each one paying more than a nano-ready medkit costs, she is still way ahead. But it gets boring.

[nemesis]

16K for a disposable nano armor is expensive grav. If your armor gets "consumed" by medkit usage you need to buy a new one and 16k a pop is not easy to earn, especially if you are buying for yourself and your runners.

[grävling]

Jun 19, 2012 3:39:55 GMT -5 nemesis said:

16K for a disposable nano armor is expensive grav. If your armor gets "consumed" by medkit usage you need to buy a new one and 16k a pop is not easy to earn, especially if you are buying for yourself and your runners.

The reason I like it is that it is expensive, and indeed I am not sure that it is expensive enough. I am not sure if your comment is 'this is expensive, good' or 'this is too expensive'. It sounds to me as if expense could be modified with the world economy setting -- which currently, as far as I know, does nothing but will modify prices in the future.

But what I want to guard against is the notion that you can factor in the cost of dying, and having your runners die and still come out ahead. I want being saved by your medkit to be almost -- but not quite -- as bad as having the game end with your death. The way it is now, I can imagine bored rich corps kids playing killing games for reall-- where they get to murder their friends all for the cost of 1200Y a death in medkits. Hell, I would be willing to open the 'Kill or be Killed' theme park for them, and really rake in the cash.

[grävling]

Idea

When you die and your nano-ready medkit deploys, you fall unconscious. The people that killed you think that you are dead. True-dead, dead. They loot your corpse, and take everything you own. They then toss you into the river or the sea. Over the next 3 hours the nano injected into your body restores you to life. You wake up, naked, with a tremendous craving for human blood (--- oops, wrong game.. ) It's just the same as starting over (except a bit worse, because you don't have any starting gear) except that you get to keep your stats. And you get to keep your bank account, and your phonelist. So always walk around with enough cash that you can afford to buy a new 1 job computer and some sort of weapon should the worst ever happen to you ...

We could also make it a different 'death' condition for those who don't want PermaDie (or InstaDie) but want something with more bite than what they have now. They could get LoseAllMyStuffDie or whatever we decide to call this.

The situation changes for when a runner dies, as you will be alive to keep the runner from being looted. You still have to get to a hotel and rest before the runner can operate again. And a runner can do the same for you -- when you die, your runners bring you to the closest hotel and you wake up there, with your stuff. Another reason to hire them.

Of course if you, and your runners die its back to losing all stuff for you (and the runners will lose their stuff as well).

This would imply changing the battle screen so that when the medkit deploys, the effected character, player or runner, falls over unconscious and disappears from the screen, much as what happens when runners die permanently now. Poof, gone for the rest of this battle. Fight on with whomever remains.

I think this would be a way cool way to handle the nano-ready and brutal combination, but I suspect that wanting things this brutal is a minority taste. Then again, I think that playing brutal at all is a minority taste, too, so maybe this isn't an issue.

[koles]

since new instadie went to game, I play only with max difficult settings - and that makes me to think twice before I make any move - but now with nanos game is really relaxing, especialy when ck and runners earned good skills.
your sugestion is quite good grav, but when mars will open their top floor, we probably will need instant-heal back.

I would rather prefer that nano-ready armors would be cheaper but nano medkits cost at least 10kY*difficult settings

and one more thing - now whole team have shared backpack - if all backpacks would be stand alone for each teammember - with damn expensive medkits it would turn off for some time god mode on instadie

[grävling]

Jun 19, 2012 13:23:24 GMT -5 koles said:

your sugestion is quite good grav, but when mars will open their top floor, we probably will need instant-heal back.

I don't know about that -- if we have robots, allies, extremely well trained team members, and only the Trese Brothers know what else by that time, won't that be enough?

I keep thinking that if you design a game with a built in 'and factor in that you will die X number of times' then it had better be a game about the undead. Otherwise, it's a flaw.

[LordofSyn]

I play for fun first
testing second
flavor third
and challenge last

While that may make it seem like I am a wuss (read as I don't care to play Brutal, etc) I actually get more fun out of it. I still don't even know what all the ladders do...intentionally. I have used the Armor/medkit revive once in a hairy fight, but don't depend on it...it gets expensive fast. My play style is light, especially now because I am working on Fan Fiction (completing my first of hopefully a few stories) and don't want to overload my senses more than necessary. Since I have been playing for over a year, there have been so many changes and things to be excited about...and many more on the horizon that I am rapt with anticipation much like everyone else.

I will agree that the topic of this thread is a minority one. or at least I am part of the minority...

[nemesis]

Jun 19, 2012 0:13:35 GMT -5 grävling said:

I don't think that 16225 for an Agent DX suit is that much money. Maybe if your Nano-Ready Armor was good for one deployment, and then you had to buy another? I still think that something is missing, and characters become immortal too quickly now. I have a character where as soon as she could afford an Agent DX suit and a 2 job computer went directly to work out of the Bar of Birds. Next upgrade, a 4 job computer. She gets killed once per trip to escort people to Mars Corp. But with 4 people to escort, each one paying more than a nano-ready medkit costs, she is still way ahead. But it gets boring.

If nano armor will become a one shot thing, 16k for Agent DX is EXPENSIVE. The only way you can afford to have multiple sets for you and your runners is late game when you are nearly immortal because of stats and skills. If its going to work one time and croak in brutal mode, reduce nano armor price by at least 2/3 so that it will at least be economically feasible to purchase to save your life and your runners.

[nemesis]

Jun 19, 2012 13:23:24 GMT -5 koles said:

since new instadie went to game, I play only with max difficult settings - and that makes me to think twice before I make any move - but now with nanos game is really relaxing, especialy when ck and runners earned good skills.
your sugestion is quite good grav, but when mars will open their top floor, we probably will need instant-heal back.

I would rather prefer that nano-ready armors would be cheaper but nano medkits cost at least 10kY*difficult settings

and one more thing - now whole team have shared backpack - if all backpacks would be stand alone for each teammember - with damn expensive medkits it would turn off for some time god mode on instadie

I like the idea of increasing nano medkits but not to up to 10k. Maybe 3-5k is sufficient to make it expensive but not extremely so.

[crosaith]

As a player who plays on the 1 death system, I think this feature is useful. While it hasn't happened that much.. no jinx. It'd be a real b*tch to get killed by that random sniper, explosion, stroke of bad luck, and have to start over from the VERY beginning again.

Maybe I'm not earning $$ the most efficient way, but 16k is VERY expensive. I don't like the thought of having to re-buy armor at that cost. How about instead of doing that, the medkits just restore a % of your health based on the medkit used, and you stay in combat. Expensive, plus the danger factor is still there because you can be killed again. Also, as an added side effect, healing this way could put a lot of stress on your body making you very tired.