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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 17:07:06 GMT -5
One of my new captans has invested heavily in warrior but not at all in Intimidate. And what I noticed was my boarding attack stength was great, but when an enemy ship boarded ME I lost rediculous damage.
What's the skill(s) that help whn your boarded by an enemy ship? Is Intimidate more important than warrior on that isue? Does it depend on the number of crew you hav on board?
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Post by xdesperado on Sept 21, 2012 18:14:34 GMT -5
Interesting question regarding the relative values of the skills. My current captain only has a warrior of 15 but she has Intimidate at 25 and Pilot, stealth and tactics are all 35s. Board all the time with relatively little damage to my crew or ship. Of course I have MO, BH and Templar for officers and keep a minimum of 50weapons onboard always...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 22:30:37 GMT -5
Interesting question regarding the relative values of the skills. My current captain only has a warrior of 15 but she has Intimidate at 25 and Pilot, stealth and tactics are all 35s. Board all the time with relatively little damage to my crew or ship. Of course I have MO, BH and Templar for officers and keep a minimum of 50weapons onboard always... If you keep investing l8ttl in warror like your doing now, evenually enemies will exceed your weapon advantage and you'll suck at boarding. Its happened to me. I invest little in warrior but carry a shitload of weapons, and for a while I'm king of the world, and eventually enemies catch p to me and kill me in boarding. Don't make my mistake! Invest heavily in warrior! Tactics and Intimidate I MUCH less important in boarding attack than warrior and strength. Tactics is more for guns/torps, intimidae is more for morale loss prevention for traveling with no fuel, enslaving crew, etc., mutinies and fuel consumption. Stealth is primarily used for tops, torp evasion and range change at long range. They all HELP boarding, but its warrior that has boarding as its PRIMARY (and only) purpose. Also, stealth is worth twice as much as other stats in terms of leveling up (probably due to its importance). So investing heavily in stealth will cause you to level up faster than investing heavily in pilot or tactics or warrior. This is bad, as when you lvel up, enemies get stronger.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 22:43:01 GMT -5
Most important for boarding: Crew numbers, weapons, strength, warrior, morale, enemy warrior skill, enemy strength skill, enemy crew numbers, enemy weapons, enemy morale (decreases when losing boarding or taking damage), damage of enemy ship, captain HP, enemy captain HP
Contributing factors: Tactics, Intimidate, Officers, Upgrades, Pilot, Engines to hull ratio, Ship Speed, Stealth, ship size (a bigger ship with more sails, guns, etc. will be able to absorb more damage), enemy ship size, damage to own ship, luck, enemy AI, maybe Quickness, other factors
Now this is for boarding attack. I don't know about resistance vs. Boarding
I've also notied I do significantly worse when I board after facing the opposite direction of the enemy ship. Some sugestions on improving that too would be nice
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920
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Post by BlastGT1 on Sept 22, 2012 7:52:55 GMT -5
Suggestion: Turn around. Crew members don't like jumping in front of the engines and being turned into human marshmallows. _______________________________
Every day I'm torpin'.....
Party Torp is in the tube tonight, Everybody just have a Torp time. Hull breach will make you lose your find, Pirates stealin', just have a Torp time!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2012 12:43:32 GMT -5
I do turnaround when I select board. If I turn around any other way the enemy will board ME and I don't want that happening.
Also, somtimes I'll advance at mid range facing the other way, and after I advance I'll still be facing the other way, as if I'm going backwards. Shouldn't I tun and face the enemy whenadvancing?
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920
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Post by BlastGT1 on Sept 22, 2012 13:04:23 GMT -5
Psst.....hey buddy.....that was a joke.....pass it along.....
_______________________________
Every day I'm torpin'.....
Party Torp is in the tube tonight, Everybody just have a Torp time. Hull breach will make you lose your find, Pirates stealin', just have a Torp time!
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 22, 2012 15:08:45 GMT -5
I do turnaround when I select board. If I turn around any other way the enemy will board ME and I don't want that happening. Also, somtimes I'll advance at mid range facing the other way, and after I advance I'll still be facing the other way, as if I'm going backwards. Shouldn't I tun and face the enemy whenadvancing? I don't understand this post ... this is an ancient piece of code that I've tested for hundreds of hours. I suspect this is some confusion and if you post a clear question I'll help explain it for you so you can understand the game's rules!
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Post by slawyer on Sept 22, 2012 17:12:38 GMT -5
WARNING: This might be extremely boring, confusing, incorrect, or all of the above. It's certainly extremely nerdy and TMI for the typical player, but the more meta-gaming among us might find this interesting.
I've been digging around in the code trying to understand boarding better, and I think I've got a pretty good idea of how it works now, for the most part. Part of the logic is still missing in inflictBoardingDamage (decompiler failure), but I think I've got a pretty good grasp of how the combat dice tests work now for boarding and for defending against boarding. Here's what I've gleaned so far about how it works:
Test for defense against boarding (PC Retreats while NPC Boards):
GAME_DIFFICULTY = {IMPOSSIBLE:0, INSANE:1, CRAZY:2, HARD:3, DIFFICULT:4, CHALLENGE:5, NORMAL:6, BASIC:7}
CREWMORALE = 20 * (CREW / CREW_MAX + MORALE / 10) / 2 [= 20 if CREW = CREW_MAX and MORALE = 10]
PC_DICE = 2 * PC.PILOT + PC.TACTICS + PC.STEALTH + PC.SOLAR + PC.ENGINES + PC.CREWMORALE
Bonuses/penalties for PC ship upgrades: SONICS: +10 BULKHEADS: +10 LEVIATHAN: +10 !LEVIATHAN: -10 (anything else is -10)
NPC_DICE = 2 * NPC.WARRIOR + NPC.STRENGTH + NPC.STEALTH + NPC.SOLAR + NPC.CREWMORALE + 3 * NPC.HOLD_WEAPONS + 3 * (NPC.UPGRADE_BOARD + 1)
1d{X} = random integer between 0 and {X}
SHOT = DICE_TEST(PC_DICE, NPC_DICE) = (PC_DICE + 1d42 + 1d{GAME_DIFFICULTY}) - (NPC_DICE + 1d42)
[dmg on PC?] IF SHOT < -3: [yes, dmg on PC] NPC_BOARD_PC(-SHOT) [NPC boards PC => DuelOnDueckPlayer (fail defense roll) or DuelOnDeck (make defense roll)] [crit?] IF -SHOT < NPC.CREW: [yes, crit] PC_DAMAGE = NPC_DUEL_PC(NPC.WARRIOR) NPC_DAMAGE = PC_DUEL_NPC(PC.WARRIOR) "<NPC>'s attack party boarded <PC> and inflicted <PC_DAMAGE> suffereing only <NPC_DAMAGE> thenselves" [not crit] ELSE: PC_DAMAGE = NPC_DUEL_PC(4) NPC_DAMAGE = PC_DUEL_NPC(4) "<NPC>'s attack party boarded <PC> and inflicted <PC_DAMAGE> but was interrupted by a duel and suffered <NPC_DAMAGE> themselves" [no dmg, range?] IF SHOT > 3: COMBAT_RANGE++ "<PC> repelled an attack team from <NPC> and gained range" [no dmg, no range] IF -3 < SHOT < 3: [standoff] "<PC> maintained range and held off an attack team from <NPC>"
[NPC boarding action:] NPC_BOARD_PC(SHOT): HITS = SHOT IF NPC.CREW > 2 * NPC.ENGINES: +MIN(NPC.CREW, NPC.WEAPONS) IF NPC.UPGRADE_BOARD = {CUTTERS:1 | SONICS:2 | SHUTTLES:3 | LEVIATHAN:4} +(5 * NPC.UPGRADE_BOARD) IF 1d{1 + 2 * NPC.WARRIOR}-1 + NPC.WEAPONS + NPC.STRENGTH > PC.WARRIOR + PC.STRENGTH + PC.WEAPONS: DuelOnDeckPlayer, PC.HEALTH--; ELSE: DuelOnDeck
I'm having trouble deciphering the code that spreads the damage, so this part if probably not right (Cory help clarify?) -- from playing, I know that it's possible to get ship damage from the board action, but I don't see how the code gets there from here.
NPC_DUEL_PC(SHOT): HITS = SHOT IF NPC.CREW > 2 * NPC.ENGINES: +MIN(NPC.CREW, NPC.WEAPONS) IF UPGRADE_BOARD = {CUTTERS:1 | SONICS:2 | SHUTTLES:3 | LEVIATHAN:4}: +(5 * UPGRADE_BOARD) HALFDAMAGE = MAX(HITS / 2, 2) BOARDING_PARTIES = MAX(1, CREW / 5) + 1d2 FOREACH(BOARDING_PARTY): PARTY_HITS = 1d{HALFDAMAGE}; HITS-=PARTY_HITS; IF PARTY_HITS >= NPC.CREW: PC.HEALTH--; ELSE: DISTRIBUTE_DAMAGE(PARTY_HITS, PC_SHIP)
PC_DUEL_NPC(SHOT): HITS = SHOT IF CREW > 2 * ENGINES: +MIN(CREW, WEAPONS) IF UPGRADE_BOARD = {CUTTERS:1 | SONICS:2 | SHUTTLES:3 | LEVIATHAN:4}: +(5 * UPGRADE_BOARD) HALFDAMAGE = MAX(HITS / 2, 2) BOARDING_PARTIES = MAX(1, CREW / 5) + 1d2 FOREACH(BOARDING_PARTY): PARTY_HITS = 1d{HALFDAMAGE}-1; HITS-=PARTY_HITS; IF PARTY_HITS >= PC.CREW: NPC.HEALTH--; ELSE: DISTRIBUTE_DAMAGE(PARTY_HITS, NPC_SHIP)
I haven't finished analyzing the code that distributes the damage; the logic between that and the start of inflictBoardingDamage is messed up. I also see some logic checking for templar and vet officers and aliens in the duel logic, which I skipped in the above (actually I haven't found the code path where the affect things yet; still looking for the code path where character models aren't null there).
Notice that INTIMIDATE does not factor into any of that. It does not help with boarding.
To avoid getting boarded, the most important skill is clearly PILOT. Once you've been boarded though, it doesn't factor in at all; then it's all about WARRIOR.
Note that the reverse case of what's described above, PC boarding NPC while NPC retreats, works the same (with different ship upgrade bonuses). You want huge WARRIOR and LOTS of WEAPONS (triple bonus!!!) for boarding enemies.
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 22, 2012 17:23:23 GMT -5
Next release I'll make sure Proguard gets all of the functions, not the just the missing objects! Our obfuscation routines are obviously protecting a lot of stuff -- the post above is missing some sections, but it isn't doing enough to protect the game's logic.
I am not too sure I am a fan of posting decompiles on our forum; if we can avoid it in the future, that would make me happy.
I guess my concern is that people will take incomplete code analysis (it only gets the Java parts, none of the JNI or other tricks) and start arguments.
I can imagine some forum members turning the post above into a huge negative debate dragging out what is posted above vs. how it works vs. how I have explained it. My posts take into account the obfuscated parts and various tricky parts and I can just see this thread turning into a huge negative energy event for me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2012 17:39:46 GMT -5
I do turnaround when I select board. If I turn around any other way the enemy will board ME and I don't want that happening. Also, somtimes I'll advance at mid range facing the other way, and after I advance I'll still be facing the other way, as if I'm going backwards. Shouldn't I tun and face the enemy whenadvancing? I don't understand this post ... this is an ancient piece of code that I've tested for hundreds of hours. I suspect this is some confusion and if you post a clear question I'll help explain it for you so you can understand the game's rules! If I'm facing away from the enemy ship and I advance, after advancing I'm still facing away from the enemy ship, as opposed to turning around and then advancing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2012 17:43:12 GMT -5
I'm afraid I don't fully understand slawyers post (mostly because I don't know anything about code).
When the NPC succesfuly boards the PC, which factors play the greatest role? Pilot prevents you from getting boarded, but what about once you've already been boarded? What plays the geatest role in reducing damage to your ship and increasing damage to enemy ship when the ENEMY boards YOU.
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Post by slawyer on Sept 22, 2012 18:29:33 GMT -5
Sorry Cory, I'm not trying to get you in trouble! I'll stop posting stuff like that. I am just REALLY into the game. Please don't send Cadar assassins to get me!
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 22, 2012 20:10:29 GMT -5
I looked at it more and I don't think I'm going to obfuscate much further ... if I do the trade off is that crash reports and stack traces get much harder to read. Although, several people have told me that the lack of obfuscation is what makes the game so easy to pirate
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920
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Post by BlastGT1 on Sept 22, 2012 21:26:07 GMT -5
Some would say that piracy is also a measure of success, when speaking of popularity or demand. You could consider it a backhanded compliment, to some degree.
_______________________________
Every day I'm torpin'.....
Party Torp is in the tube tonight, Everybody just have a Torp time. Hull breach will make you lose your find, Pirates stealin', just have a Torp time!
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