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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 22:17:06 GMT -5
Passenger ships would be nice, though I requested this before. The reason why there aren't enemies labeled as "civilians" or "passenger ships" is because the 5 enemy types already represent all types of combat, the merchant being the non-hostile, weak-fighting runner. Another reason culd be that its against shaulan law to attack passengers just like stealing credits from captains. However, "liners" are passenger ships by definition. So prehaps it can be made so a majority of liner crew don't fight, and it would be kinda like passenger ships.
An idea for incentive for not using "destroy": How many ships you've destroyed after victory was yours could play a small role in whether the ships you encounter are hostile. If you've destroyed 1000 ships afer victory was yours, and an indy military officer encounters you, he's probably more likely to be hostile towards you given your murderous history
There's a good chance that the passenger/civilian enemy type and ransom idea will be a more likely candidate for ST2, as such a measure would require a lot of effort and new mechanics.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 26, 2013 22:52:39 GMT -5
Well, hold on -- Passengers are never Counted in Crew -- see "Contract Missions."
Liners have way more Crew, extra extra security, servants, backups, etc. The concept of a Passenger is protected under Shalun's Peace. Destroying Ships is a reputation destroyer because any Passenger's the died, the Faction will file a grievance and cost your Captain Reputation.
Another example -- when you take an Assassination or Bounty Hunter mission, the target and his/her entourage and bodyguards do not add "Crew" to the ship.
The nature of the Star Trader's society, interstellar travel and "Passengers" on Liners and Merchant Ships is very rare. Few planetary citizens will ever leave the world on which they are born.
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920 
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Post by BlastGT1 on Feb 27, 2013 8:21:39 GMT -5
The "do the right thing" reward idea is interesting, makes me think of blockading. Leave them alive at the cost of their cred sticks.
_______________________________
"Issue the standard Cadar greeting, Ensign."
"But sir, that's one of our allies!"
"I know that, Ensign. We're confirming that the treaty is still in effect!"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 10:38:10 GMT -5
The "do the right thing" reward idea is interesting, makes me think of blockading. Leave them alive at the cost of their cred sticks. _______________________________ "Issue the standard Cadar greeting, Ensign." "But sir, that's one of our allies!" "I know that, Ensign. We're confirming that the treaty is still in effect!" Well, its more like letting them go through at the cost of their cred sticks. You don't destroy ships in a blockade, you just don't let them in or out of planetary orbit (unless of course they have credits) |
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920
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Post by BlastGT1 on Feb 27, 2013 12:40:53 GMT -5
It's a comparison, not a mirror image, hence my comment. In both cases, you extract something from the other party.
_______________________________
"Issue the standard Cadar greeting, Ensign."
"But sir, that's one of our allies!"
"I know that, Ensign. We're confirming that the treaty is still in effect!"
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Post by TomL on Mar 4, 2013 8:48:07 GMT -5
On the degrees of defeating a ship and its impact on reputation, it's always been Leave after defeat = minimum RP loss of doing combat in the first place Leave after looting Leave after enslaving Leave after looting and enslaving Destroy Destroy after looting Destroy after looting and enslaving. Where does "destroy (without looting) and enslaving" fit in within that spectrum? As for how the defeated crew feels when you "destroy (without enslaving)", I can just imagine them going down with the ship cheering "yay! at least we're not enslaved! hurray! [die]" Tom |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 21:38:26 GMT -5
Agreed. Enslave and then destroy should not cause further rep loss, as for loo then destroy. Once you hit destroy, looting/enslaving shouldn't matter at that point
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920
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Post by BlastGT1 on Mar 5, 2013 16:07:08 GMT -5
When you enslave, then destroy, you always leave someone behind.
_______________________________
"Issue the standard Cadar greeting, Ensign."
"But sir, that's one of our allies!"
"I know that, Ensign. We're confirming that the treaty is still in effect!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 20:07:41 GMT -5
When you enslave, then destroy, you always leave someone behind. _______________________________ "Issue the standard Cadar greeting, Ensign." "But sir, that's one of our allies!" "I know that, Ensign. We're confirming that the treaty is still in effect!" Which explains why rep loss would be the same, not why enslave and destroy costs MORE rep than just destroy. Once you hit destroy, cargo and crew on the ship is irrelevent, so whether or not you take them shouldn't matter. |
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 5, 2013 21:08:52 GMT -5
Loose lips and cargo seals. Destroy a ship with everything on board including crew and there is a lot less evidence. Take the cargo and it likely has trade seals and other markings that can be traced. Conscript the crew and they will talk about it next time they have liberty in a spice hall. If you destroy the ship afterwards that just makes things worse.  |
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Post by johndramey on Mar 5, 2013 22:37:48 GMT -5
I think xdesperado go it best. Logically the every option will cause some rep loss because, let's face it, there is no such thing as a perfect crime. In a perfect world we could separate losses in red and green zones if we consider red to be the more wild sections and green to be the safer tracts of space. Further, we'd have to consider who controls the space. Neutral space would be safest, although who could really trust and independent captain to not sell the information of who pirated "Snapper" to the nearest faction outpost? After separating out the zones of space and the faction then, really, rep loss should go as follows, least to greatest... Ignore completely Engage and retreat Engage, hull kill Engage, loot Engage, enslave Engage, loot and enslave Engage, loot and enslave, total kill The rational behind that would be a total hull breach being much more difficult to trace to a specific captain/cause. Survivors would be likely to spread the information either openly or secretly, and stolen goods could possible be traced. Just my two cents. I'm sure that coding and implementing all of this would be a massive pain for the brothers, so I'm happy leaving the system as is though  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 22:43:02 GMT -5
No evidence isn't a problem. They have things in ships (forhot what its called) so that if its destroyed the military can see who did what.
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Post by johndramey on Mar 5, 2013 22:47:43 GMT -5
You're thinking of the "Black Box," which is standard in basically any kind of vessel ever created. Sure ships are equipped with black boxes, but you have to take into account that a box won't be easily found in space and, more often than not, will probably be destroyed along with the ship.
The problem with a military black box is that the faction will want to be able to keep it from being found by its enemies, so the box has to actually be stealthed. If it is shielded properly then it will have to be prepared with some other means of discovery, such as coded transmissions or what have you. However, anything like that will require an internal power supply that could either A) run out of juice fairly quickly in the deep darkness of space or B) compromise shielding, allowing the black box to be found easily.
Basically, if you are truly going to pirate some ship and want it to be as clean as possible you will do your best to make sure the black box is vaporized or otherwise unrecoverable. Especially if you are boarding the ship, you will probably rip that bad boy out and drop it into the nearest sun. I know I would...... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 22:57:07 GMT -5
It's 1000 yrs in the future. I'm sure the military has a way of retrieving the black box or a way of getting the info in the black box (prehaps the info is on an online database for the military to access)
Besides, if there wasn't evidence, that would mean thered be times destroy leads to 0 rep penalty. And that never happens. Plus, it doesn't explain why looting and destroy would cause more rep penalty.
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Post by johndramey on Mar 6, 2013 0:52:16 GMT -5
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that I'm talking about how the game currently works. Instead I'm talking about how I would like it to work.
The current system is great and easy to understand, but if you sit and think about it a totally destroyed ship should, by all rights, leave less evidence than one that has been looted and subject to domination. But again, this is not the way the game works. In fact, implementing that system would needlessly complicate the system in place now.
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