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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 16, 2014 10:24:44 GMT -5
Okay, everyone is right in my oppinion. On one hand, the current ship designer doesn't allow for stats that make it as good as MANY ships in the game (not a few, not exceptions, many). That being said, changing the ship designer so that you could have engines and sails to a 3:1 ratio with hull like slawyer's dream cruiser is too overbalanced, regardless of price. In my opinion, I think that although there should be a few ships (ie omega cruiser, slayernz cruiser) that shouldn't be able to be replicated exactly, the majority of ships should be able to be replicated by the ship designer, and all ships should be able to be ALMOST replicated by the ship designer. For example, titan cruiser has 300 crew, 3 other ships have 250 crew. If the ship designer were to have a max of 230 or 240 crew, although it wouldn't be as good for boarding as a titan cruiser or sword cruiser, it would be almost as good and could have different advantages, like more guns or engines. And for balance, raising the max of 1 statistic (ie crew) would lower the max of another (ie cargo) such that there wouldn't be a ship like this: Ship name: Unbalanced Cruiser Hull 30 Armor 20 Engines 60 Sails 60 Crew 240 Cargo 165 Guns 48 Torps 48 FAST QUICK I agree. At this point, slawyer and some other posters are pushing for some pretty unbalanced math. Have to be careful. I have to be very careful because there have been times in the past three years where we have listened TOO much and made the game NOT fun for the tens of thousands of players who play, e-mail and never visit the forum to post. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 14:12:36 GMT -5
There are a bunch of good suggestions on the forum and probably via email for balanced improvements to the ship designer. And I just came up with another one. What about allowing the player to choose 1 of several "checkpoints" that would provide certain advantages and disadvantages without overbalance. Observe:
Armoury: Increase maximum armor in relation to hull. Decrease max hull by 6. Ship cannot be both FAST and QUICK.
Reactors: Increase max engines by 10. Decrease max sails by 10. Ship cannot be FAST.
Auxiliary: Increase max sails by 10. Decrease max engines by 10. Ship cannot be QUICK.
Interior Decks: Increase max crew by 40. Decrease max cargo by 40. Ship cannot be FAST nor QUICK.
Interior Hold: Increase max cargo by 20. Decrease max crew by 40, max engines by 10.Ship cannot be QUICK.
Weaponry: Increase max guns by 5. Decrease max torps by 15. Ship cannot be QUICK.
Armament: Increase max torps by 5. Decrease max guns by 15. Ship cannot be FAST.
Exterior: Increase max hull by 6.
For additional balance, you can make ship designer "checkpoints" only available on certain planets like upgrades, with checkpoints' commonality based on time, rep, rank, lv and ship ratings, so that players could only design high-end custom ships late in the game, once enemies have access to pre-made ships. Further balancing measures could include raising the cost by 50k or so for using a checkpoint, having checkpoints an unlockable and making the max cost of a custom ship 1 mil.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 16, 2014 14:45:41 GMT -5
The best idea is to make a really great ship designer that includes the best model from the original ship designer.
If we change the core rule, we'd want to change 600 ships and eventually we've given up everything that makes ST great.
I'm on a mission to make protect ST RPG and advance new ideas in other games that do not have 2,400 hours of work already put towards perfecting them.
I think you guys are going to love the "Reactive Mass" system in 4X Ship Designer.
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Post by Gambit on Apr 20, 2014 2:18:53 GMT -5
Then again you pay for the ship designer add on. What does it matter if it is a little unbalanced? Just asking as a general point of fact.
Whats the point of having the ship designer add on at all if im going to buy a better in game ship anyways?
And the arguement of it unbalancing the game doesnt hold becuase you can choose not to download or use the ship designer. Its an add on remember not a core feature. If it was a core feature id support restrictions for balanced game play. But devils advocate...if I pay for an add on to build a custom designed ship, my initial expectation is to be able to build a ship with a hull and armor etc. equal to existing ships.
I understand where you are coming from but the ship designer is not a core feature.
Speaking as a consumer...devils advocate...not from a game designers perspective...why buy somethung that cannot diliver on designing me a better ship than the ships that exist in the core game I already paid for? Aside from the pretty graphics changes.
Why buy a ship designer that wont let me build a ship equal or better? I consider the ship designer to be a cheat or add on, or why pay extra for it rather than just include it in the core game?
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That said just for thought...I agree and like the idea of having powerful rare ships in game as cory and I already stated in previous posts. And it fits with lore.
But as it is, the ship designer seems to be an early game, albiet expensive, solution to hold over to buying a more powerful ship in game.
Dont get me wrong, I like it, and bought it. But if you cant use it to change the graphic of existing ships...idk. I think there are valid points on both sides.
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In conclusion, I think if you continue to have the ship designer as an add on, then it shouldnt matter if it is unbalanced. But if you included it as a core feature, then it should be balanced with the existing game.
I think both schools of thought are correct. *Shrug*
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 21, 2014 1:05:01 GMT -5
I am speaking first and foremost as a player of Star Traders. I cannot put aside the fact that I play this game for hours every week on both my iPad and Android.
As a player I do not want a "pay to win" option in the game. If the Ship Designer means I put in $1 and win easily, then that ruins the game and makes me think bad things about the developer -- he ruined my game for $1. Jerk!
As it is, you can match or better 90% of the ships in the game's catalog and I'm working on balancing in the rest as well as adding some new features for players who want to go outside the core features.
As a player, I am willing to buy game add ons that make the existing content more fun, more nuanced or more flexible.
In this case, I hope that the access, customization and control of the ship designer attracts enough players to make it worth the hours the developer put in.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 9:12:02 GMT -5
I am speaking first and foremost as a player of Star Traders. I cannot put aside the fact that I play this game for hours every week on both my iPad and Android. As a player I do not want a "pay to win" option in the game. If the Ship Designer means I put in $1 and win easily, then that ruins the game and makes me think bad things about the developer -- he ruined my game for $1. Jerk! As it is, you can match or better 90% of the ships in the game's catalog and I'm working on balancing in the rest as well as adding some new features for players who want to go outside the core features. As a player, I am willing to buy game add ons that make the existing content more fun, more nuanced or more flexible. In this case, I hope that the access, customization and control of the ship designer attracts enough players to make it worth the hours the developer put in. It is. We just like to bust your chops  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 21, 2014 15:06:54 GMT -5
I know that how this forum works and I keep coming back. Part of me must like it The team here is as a huge part of our game design process and it wouldn't be the same without some chop busting =) |
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Post by Gambit on Apr 22, 2014 20:56:43 GMT -5
See my first post a few pages back. I pretty much completely agree with you. Lol. Thats why I say...devils advocate lol. Discussion is healthy if conducted in the right context.
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 22, 2014 22:27:02 GMT -5
See my first post a few pages back. I pretty much completely agree with you. Lol. Thats why I say...devils advocate lol. Discussion is healthy if conducted in the right context. I did certainly read your post, I even copied a few parts of it into my notes file. Very well reasoned and I agree with a lot of the points you made. I do apologize for the lack of response, from time to time I get overwhelmed with PM, e-mail and follow ups and just stop writing back. I never stop reading tho. |
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silverwolf
Initiate
Resting at refuge camp after being assaulted by steel song pirates, templars, and a de valtos warshi
Posts: 22 
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Post by silverwolf on May 4, 2014 22:47:11 GMT -5
Love the designer. My only question... Maybe make a few upgrades available to the designer? Maybe only 7 or 8 with at most 4 available in the starting SD? Granted, I agree with keeping it as is also, this is a suggestion formed out of the concept of a "picky beggar" pirate ship with a weapons locker instead... And thank you for the designer in the first place.
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Post by pendell on Apr 16, 2017 17:02:09 GMT -5
So here's a ship I designed ... the HMS Surprise. Let's see if the image will come up...  Odd. I can see a shortcut but I can't see the image itself until I click on it. Suggestions? Anyway, on to discussion. StatsHull: 15 Armor: 9 Engines: 20 Sails: 40 (currently 58, with advanced sails system + prow upgrade). Crew: 40 Cargo Hold: 108 Guns: 10 Torpedoes: 18 (16+2 with upgrade) Speed: FAST Agility: MEDIUM Fuel Consumption: (Demanding difficulty level) Red: 0.71 Green: 0.00 Cost to Assemble: 1 million, approx. The Sales PitchThe Surprise is designed for the smuggler who wishes to deliver large amounts of cargo quickly and safely across long journeys through red space. It is also of use to the torpedo-using bounty hunter, as the numerous torpedo bays allow it to subdue even powerful enemy ships at long range. Consequently, this ship has been built around three major strengths: 1) Number of sails (for fuel consumption and stealth) 2) Large Cargo Hold (for water fuel range, and for carrying enough cargo to make the trip worthwhile) 3) Number of Torpedoes (In order to make sure we can defend ourselves if need be. A Captain flying in this ship should invest heavily in stealth and tactics, to maximize the capability of this ship at long range. The Fine PrintIn order to achieve this long-range, high-speed, smuggler's ship, we have had to make a number of sacrifices, such that the ship is not of use to everyone: 1) Minimal crew. This is not a warrior's ship and is not designed for boarding. We have only as much crew as we need to operate the vessel; we have no surplus for combat. 2) Minimal guns/medium agility We only have enough guns to get the ship designer to shut up. As originally designed, this ship would have no guns and rely totally on torpedoes for defense. As it is, the minimal guns mean the ship is not designed for a close-in dogfight. While it does not wallow in sublight (no ship that leaves Pendell Shipyards will have less than medium agility) , it is still not intended for high-g maneuvers. So, in essence, if this ship is fighting at any range other than long, you're hosed. Your options are to either 1) Run, 2) Hit them with a torpedo first and then run 3) Hit them with torpedoes until they're disabled. But this ship is not designed for any combat saved long range, and if an enemy once closes the distance you're in trouble. QuestionsI invite feedback on two points: 1) Would you fly this ship? Why or why not? 2) What improvements could be made to the design, to make it more efficent in its role? Respectfully, Brian P. |
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Post by fallen on Apr 16, 2017 18:24:21 GMT -5
pendell - great post and call for feedback. Some photosharing sites are just easier to use than others. Photobucket is definitely simpler the using GDrive. All set with the image 
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Post by Officer Genious on Apr 16, 2017 18:42:10 GMT -5
So here's a ship I designed ... the HMS Surprise. Let's see if the image will come up... Odd. I can see a shortcut but I can't see the image itself until I click on it. Suggestions? Anyway, on to discussion. StatsHull: 15 Armor: 9 Engines: 20 Sails: 40 (currently 58, with advanced sails system + prow upgrade). Crew: 40 Cargo Hold: 108 Guns: 10 Torpedoes: 18 (16+2 with upgrade) Speed: FAST Agility: MEDIUM Fuel Consumption: (Demanding difficulty level) Red: 0.71 Green: 0.00 Cost to Assemble: 1 million, approx. The Sales PitchThe Surprise is designed for the smuggler who wishes to deliver large amounts of cargo quickly and safely across long journeys through red space. It is also of use to the torpedo-using bounty hunter, as the numerous torpedo bays allow it to subdue even powerful enemy ships at long range. Consequently, this ship has been built around three major strengths: 1) Number of sails (for fuel consumption and stealth) 2) Large Cargo Hold (for water fuel range, and for carrying enough cargo to make the trip worthwhile) 3) Number of Torpedoes (In order to make sure we can defend ourselves if need be. A Captain flying in this ship should invest heavily in stealth and tactics, to maximize the capability of this ship at long range. The Fine PrintIn order to achieve this long-range, high-speed, smuggler's ship, we have had to make a number of sacrifices, such that the ship is not of use to everyone: 1) Minimal crew. This is not a warrior's ship and is not designed for boarding. We have only as much crew as we need to operate the vessel; we have no surplus for combat. 2) Minimal guns/medium agility We only have enough guns to get the ship designer to shut up. As originally designed, this ship would have no guns and rely totally on torpedoes for defense. As it is, the minimal guns mean the ship is not designed for a close-in dogfight. While it does not wallow in sublight (no ship that leaves Pendell Shipyards will have less than medium agility) , it is still not intended for high-g maneuvers. So, in essence, if this ship is fighting at any range other than long, you're hosed. Your options are to either 1) Run, 2) Hit them with a torpedo first and then run 3) Hit them with torpedoes until they're disabled. But this ship is not designed for any combat saved long range, and if an enemy once closes the distance you're in trouble. QuestionsI invite feedback on two points: 1) Would you fly this ship? Why or why not? 2) What improvements could be made to the design, to make it more efficent in its role? Respectfully, Brian P. Not a bad ship. It probably has too much room (the urge to fill up all that space will attract bad attention), but I like the concept. |
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poryg
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,723
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Post by poryg on Apr 17, 2017 7:17:37 GMT -5
Officer Genious yes, it will attract unwanted attention. But that's what the solar sails and huge stealth are for. To escape the unwanted attention. I have to say, I would use this ship even for battles.
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Post by bookworm21 on Apr 17, 2017 9:41:12 GMT -5
Its cool to see other people also use that ship artwork. Its probably my favourite
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