Plot Theories [Spoilers, Possible Spoilers, Misleading Info]

[contributor]

I just played through the Orcin Caves twice in a row and I'm trying to make sense of what's going on with Valent's abduction.

There's a few clues.

1) Valent Koda did hear the Orcin say "the humans will come and bring the money." This isn't super helpful because, without context, they simply could have been talking about a hoped-for ransom. There does seem to be a certainty about it though that would suggest maybe they already had some contact with possible ransom payers, kidnappers or assassins.

2) Voltgar is the one who offered the heroes 2,000 gold to rescue Valent. It's not a lot (we got 3,000 for clearing the spur of Krete) but it is significant the he is making at least a token effort to get Valent back.

3) There's the Braey's marks in Orcin caves, but that is easily explainable by the fact that they have been raiding Braeys territory. Does this help at all?

4) There's the argument between Vlotgar and Valent's Tracker (at least I think that's what it called him). Who is this guy? Was he really just a dupe who got them lost? Was he intentionally leading them to the Orcin caves? Or was Vlotgar intentionally sending him down the wrong path? Perhaps, in the end, he was convinced that Vlotgar was right, followed his directions and met the Orcin?

5) A few more bits and pieces all grouped together. a) Gypsies passing through (and no missing children?) b) the lack of Rabiel's "oily" magic and c) nobody has seen anybody who looks like Rabiel, as Vraes describes him.

It doesn't seem to me like any of these clues help us out a ton. Can anybody else make more sense of it?

If I had to make a bet now I would guess that Rabiel is involved and driving the two sides to war at Ember Lake. He is the Master of Deception and can possibly do his work with simple words and gold coins without always needing to employ magical powers. He's not felt because he's not using his magic, but he is still behind it. I'm wondering a lot as well whether he might have the ability to take different guises. As the trickster why couldn't he appear as another man, or even woman? I had the random thought that Kea is actually Rabiel in disguise and she is poisoning Vlotgar's thoughts while appearing all flattering and nice to everybody else. I really have no basis for that and you would have to figure out what happened to the real Kea, but hey this thread is about crazy theories.

[contributor]

Major props to Outsider right now.

[contributor]

Anyone got guesses about the Storm Brothers, if you've been to Granthorn already? Cortias said he was going to go to a monastery above Sedolla?

[vdx]

Apr 21, 2014 15:30:23 GMT -5 Outsider said:

My newest theory is that 6th Daughter – Evesse – beauty, scheming, seduction, desire, true love, Night Mistress (Dark-Born) is behind the capture of Valent Koda and possibly had a big role in the corruption of Vurnak. I also think she's somehow in close contact with Vlotgar Braeys corrupting his mind and playing up the rivalry with the Koda clan, ultimately leading to him paying for the capture of Valent Koda not necessarily to have him killed but at least detained long enough that Koda and Braeys would go to war making it easier for her to secure relics of power. Her lies say that his brother would probably be killed in the fighting allowing him to rise to the seat of power next with her at his side. She also is responsible for the walking dead in Ember I believe.

I mean, after all, the easiest way to a man's heart is his...ermmm, pride?

This link might prove handy when thinking about the 13:
www.tresebrothers.com/heroes-of-steel/world

My vote is Bloodlace is a candidate for Evesse:

[vdx]

If we are going to speculate, let's go for broke:

The eight playable heroes represent 8 of the 13 gods not otherwise clearly indicated in the plot.

Ryethin's reference to the four heroes being her Chosen, refers to the player's selection of heroes from the available characters at the start of the game. The 8 playable characters represent the 8 gods who through action or inaction were found by the All Father to be at fault for the Shattering but not so much at fault that the All Father found them beyond salvation. The game is the process in which the gods earn their salvation and ability to return to the divine pantheon. The remaining 5 gods are either gods that were not found to be at fault or are beyond saving such as Rabiel who was the mastermind or Ryethin who has remained steadfast in her duties. Per this theory, Vulnak wasn't found at fault for the betrayal that led to the Shattering so much as responded poorly to the absence of the All Father. Vulnak wasn't evil, he just went nuts.

The All Father wasn't imprisoned or killed when the fallen four tried to trap him. Instead he was disappointed. The shattering was not the result of hardship imposed on the All Father, but a side effect* of his stripping the 13 divine gods of their power and sending them to Steel to live and die as mortals*. Think of it as the godly equivalent of the door slamming when a naughty kid is sent to a time out in their room.

So given the above conspiracy theory:

Vras is the re-born version of the god Wiegarn, the First Born son who governs pride, power, leadership and perseverance (sound familiar, look at Vras' talents). During the betrayal, Rabiel used Wiegarn's pride and love of power to lure Wiegarn into serving the dark purpose of challenging the rightful rule of the All Father. Fallen Rabiel, who was cast down rather than re-born, attempted to use Wiegarn, re-born as Vras, as a tool to build a mighty army by tempting Vras' pride and lust for power. This time, Vras's chose to give up the pride of rank and the power of an army. Vras chose to live as an outlaw fighting the corruption, the choice he could have made before the fall. Vras choice to serve others and stand for what is right, even at the cost of his pride and quest for power, was a "passing" choice.

Kincaid is the re-born version of the god Ravenna, the 13th Daughter who governs loyalty, protector rage and violence. During the betrayal, Ravenna fell into a rage at the idea the All Father could be bound. Feeling her unquestionable loyalty to the All Father was misplaced, she acted out. Reborn as Kincaid, she found herself (this time as a himself) once again in place where her loyalty to a ruler was at odds. Again Rabiel tried to trick Kincaid/Ravenna into helping him gain power. Like last time, Kincaid/Ravenna fell into a rage at the misplace loyalty. This time, he/she did not give into rage and join Rabiel. Through the help of others, Kincaid/Ravenna honored the greatly loyalty over blind rage.

Kjarten is the re-born version of the god Logar, the 11th Son who governs the lost, forsaken, and is an explorer, hermit and Lord of Sorrow. As Logar, he gave into his sorrow of the perceived death of the All Father, his master and teacher and rather than stand against Rabiel, he become an hermit. Reborn as Kjarten, he is still an explorer and still aids the forsaken, but this time he does so to bring about change rather than to wallow in his own-self pity.
Supporting plot bits: Death of Kjarten's master fuels Kjarten's actions, his extensive travels by himself. His attachment to the party members that are an outlaw and a thief coupled with his respect for righteousness of the party's cleric.

Vincent is the reborn version of the god Hagathrun, the 9th Son who governs cities, stability, order, and is a rigid judge and law maker. During the betrayal, Hagethrun valued stability over justice and attempted to make peace with Rabiel rather than hold Rabiel to account. Reborn as Vincent, he still values order and stability but chose not to ignore a supreme act of violence.
Supporting plot bits: Baron debate, the need to "put down" the possessed soldiers.

Kyrea is the reborn version of Myshana, the 12th Daughter, who governs healing, care-giving and is known as the lover and the Saint. During the betrayal, Myshana let her platonic love of her siblings prevent her from taken action to stop the betrayal. Reborn, she follows the path of the saint as one would expect but rather than allowing her self to look over the failures of her fellow mortals, she strives to serve justice, even it comes at the end of a mace. Her sin was inaction. Her redemption is the action of preventing rather than just healing harm.
Supporting plot bits: She's a cleric, etc.

Fyona is the reborn version of Ellista, the 2nd Daughter, the self-righteous seer who is known as been thoughtful and meditative, self-righteous. Seer-born. During the betrayal, Ellista did not see the betrayal coming because she was tricked into watching a false seer-version created by Rabiel. Ellista was too busy mediating on a course of action to take action. Reborn as a self-righteous battle cleric, she still values mediation and thoughtful action but has made the decision to shape the future rather than simply watch it. Her sin was inaction, her salvation is action.

Tamlin is the reborn version of Evesse, the 6th Daughter who governs beauty, scheming, seduction, desire, true love and is known as the Night Mistress. During the betrayal, Evesse was too busy scheming with Rabiel to stop him when he went too far. Reborn as Tamlin, she still values scheming and desires, esp for gold and loot, and her Silent Stalker talent makes her a mistress of the night. However, this time rather than scheme with Rabiel, she opposes him. (alternatively, maybe Tamlin is Ellista and the feeling she is being watched is her closed third eye knowing the All Father is watching.

Selen is the reborn version of Cassandra, the 5th Daughter who governs bravery, strength, sacrifice and is known as a Battle Mistress. During the betrayal, she hesitated in fear to oppose four of her united siblings. Reborn as Selen, she is fearless in multiple facing enemies far stronger than she. Her sin was hesitation. Her salvation is action.

Of course, the theory is built on a shaky foundation and there's room to resort who was reborn as who. I also could't find a door to work in aliens.

*Kudos to anyone who picks up the indirect references to the Forgotten Realms Table of Fate drama or the Dragon Lance Cataclysm

[xdesperado]

vdx I like your basic premise but with a slight variation, instead of being avatars/reborn gods what if the heroes truly are simply mortals who have been selected as champions to represent the various gods. By their actions they can eventually restore true faith in those dieties and free them to take up a more direct and active approach in the world.
Alternatively they are the chosen champions as above but instead of their actions serving as a means to restore the past their task is to help guide the world into a new era that shows humanity how they can survive and thrive without constant reliance on the gods...a sort of coming of age as it were...when younger humanity needed the constant guidance and support of the gods on a daily bases, now it's time for them to grow up and start making a go of things in their own right. As champions the heroes show that while the gods may still be present and in times of extremity will still give some aid, they are no longer needed as a constant active force.

[vdx]

The "champions" theory is better supported by the in-game text and has been discussed by players previously. The struggling block is how to adjust for Death's Consort stating the four are HER CHOSEN? It's a tough detail to work with in theories that don't center on the idea that she had chosen four mortals to reap the souls of the other gods, either as punishment, revenge or part of the post-god process.

The idea that Mortals Don't Need Gods Anymore is often a premise in sci-fi and I can see it working with what the game has revealed so far. Of course, people with the inside track might have more information about the direction the game will take, if it's even been decided.

Any theory that can be supported by the in-game text is equally valid, but I would really, really be disappointed if we find out the entire game was just a dream by Kjarten as he was unconscious in his cell. He was first in the cell, right?

[contributor]

I got a new one. Those who have finished the CoD already might be able to correct it.

The idea is that Ravenna is at the center of the CoD and she is there because she was helping the Sedollan Seer Lords overcome the problem of death through becoming undead. This also explains her sudden turn against the All-Father in the shattering (revealed in the temple of the 13, I believe). She turned because the All-Father rejected her "solution" in favor of his other daughter Ryethin and the permanence of death. So there is a unique rivalry between the two amidst complicated daddy-issues.

[vdx]

Given the relatively recent items and in game dialogue, the Season Rider MIGHT be behind the City of the Dead. Her fear of her own death has lead her to disrupt the natural seasons. It's supported by the game up to the City of the Dead. Of course with EP 3 out, it's just a matter of playing to find out. Unless you're stuck in limbo.

Seriously not happy with limbo.

[Cory Trese]

Nov 13, 2014 18:28:55 GMT -5 vdx said:

Given the relatively recent items and in game dialogue, the Season Rider MIGHT be behind the City of the Dead. Her fear of her own death has lead her to disrupt the natural seasons. It's supported by the game up to the City of the Dead. Of course with EP 3 out, it's just a matter of playing to find out. Unless you're stuck in limbo.

Seriously not happy with limbo.

Don't worry, we heard you.

We're working on it. We're not happy with it either.

[rygar]

I hope I can add in my own postulation of the plot here with some spoiler reference to what's transpired at the end of ep3.

at first I had thought the 4 heroes are simply the amnesiac 4 gods out of the nine faithful much like cortias upon waking and being unsure of his identity. But as the list of known god met on their journey grows that list becomes shorter. Cortias, hagathrun, ryethin, Vurnak, tevenna (indirectly as the Druid follower would recognize their own) , Cassandra (unmade at the shattering). Besides, even if they forgot who they are their siblings would have no such mental impairment. So this postulation is to be overruled.

Instead I now speculate the four heroes are appointed vessels of the new stewards of the new order.

we know the all-father was shattered and his children gods are losing their strength and indeed their existence. I view this as a restructuring of the world order, of things like creation/destruction, life/death cycle etc. The gods and all-father are not above this world order, just like all-father wield the power of creation but is not creation itself , and how ryethin is a death consort but not death itself. The gods 'immortality' is simply a long stretch of time deemed eternal measured in the fleeting timespan of mortal and when the time comes eventually they too must pass on to give way to the new order. The act of the Shattering is the beginning of the end of this old order and the start of establishing the new one , a new age.

The unmaking of the all-father in a coup, which by way of consequence also would unmake his children by virtue of him creating or birthing them in the first place, is probably a a scenario worked in many eons ago at the onset of the old age by the world order and it herald the coming of the new age. Even though it might seem to be petty power struggle and scheming among the
Gods, it is destined in the grand scheme of things as they say.

so, the essence of the all-father and indeed his children, which made them able stewards of the varied forces of this world order I harp about are unravelled or about to unravel completely. Just as death usher in life in the order of things, ryethin final task before she too passes on is to identify or perhaps to plant the seeds of this new essence in vessels. Hence to reference her terming our heroes her chosen ones as would-be new stewards. the process of ingraining this essence is made possible by the unmaking of the all-father and Cassandra at shattering , and will be completed once the chosen 4 reap the remaining gods.

The essence of the steward ( or the spark of divinity if you like) in Vincent,or Kjartan is the reason behind his ability to manipulate the magical energy directly and burn the bridge. Vurnak alluded to this when he can see this latent ability in Vincent as all the gods , as stewards, can before the Shattering. Only difference being the shattering naturally weaken Vurnak greatly and he is relying on the eight foci to wield this ability.

Similarly, the reaping of Vurnak and , if you so choose to, of hagathrun will have strengthen the essence in the vessels that are our heroes. This becomes evident in Kincaid , or Vrae, when facing off Seer lord Kri turning into  super Saiyan in rage and manifestly exhibiting power beyond what mere mortals can possess. The. Seer Lord Kri himself too remarked that he see why the heroes reaps the gods - to take their place but are presently still too weak, a reference to the fact that the reaping isn't complete. That Lord Kri has the foresight talent as Ellista, which I construe to be a manifest ability to see the fabric of the world order before events it's leading to unfold, makes it probable that Lord Kri can see the presence of the essence as the force- that- be works to continually transplant it into our heroes, even as the existing gods themselves find themselves drained of it.

TBC...

[(:Trese Brothers Lover:)]

I've thought the same thing as Lurker about Balgair

[fallen]

rygar - beautiful writing, thank you for sharing

[rygar]

fallen glad you find it entertaining even though I haven't meant it as a storytelling as such but as looking into your overall story plot for the game from the little plot hints or snippets presented in the game so far. So is there any semblance behind my jumble of loosely hashed up theories to the story you all had intended to tell?

I'm also very intrigued about the role of the Seer lords in this period of transition between the former age of gods into the new one , whatever that may be. I mean , beyond their obvious bad dude role.

I'm more inclined to think there's perhaps a bit more behind Lord Kri various mutterings like how he remark that the 4 heroes are replacing the old gods, how if the dark 3 had succeeded in harnessing All-father essence then Evesse would have been their equal in their negotiations , than to dismiss them as inane tripes muttered by a smelly undead Mage. after all ,we witnessed that he's possessed of insane godly power, has the gift of foresight, and sports enough badass villainy in his dialogue to be just well , another bad dude. Or maybe, I'm just looking for clues where's there's none , and Lord Kri and any surviving Seer Lord,proper seer lord mind, not their protégés like Emesai, are just another dude who's due some thumping by our band of conquering protagonists.

Whatever it is I'm pretty sure the source of the seer lords power,the proper ones like Lord Kri, is nothing to do with the old pantheon of god. They had foreseen the shattering whereas the old gods , Ellista being tricked or otherwise, hadn't . The deadening field was one such response to survive beyond this cataclysmic event beside conveniently making a mockery of and exacting revenge on the upstart sorcerers who dared to challenge their godlike status in their civil war. So the plan was conceived before the old gods had fallen, when they were at heights of their powers. Presumably seer lords then had little in way of cooperation with the old gods then, especially not when gods had little need of what the seer lords can offer then.

There might or might not be another of the old gods powering the deadening field but if there were, I think it's only in the form of a leashed energy source much like what Kri intended. for the wolf daughter. The source of their powerful sorcery and might remains unknown.

Indeed I go so far as to speculate the Seer lord might be agents of a nefarious faction who are antithesis to the order of forces that the all father and the old gods represent. The acts of subverting and perverting the natural order of life and death in CoD and how it threaten the new age at its infancy certainly back up this nefarious theory of mine . Hah. Not to forget that even Ryethin is powerless to pierce the wards of the deadening field.

Whatever it may be,I hope Lord. Kri and fellow mighty seer lord stick around as might antagonist.every good story has enduring villains who doesn't just curl up and die.

[fallen]

rygar - I find your analysis and plot ideas to be fascinating and very well put together. I work hard on the dialog and story elements, trying to drop hints and clues but not give it all away. For me, this thread has been a joy from the beginning to see what hints I have dropped have been picked up and what different theories they have created.