Group build feedback and advice thread

[John Robinson]

Sept 29, 2014 17:42:46 GMT -5 En1gma said:

I'm hoping it will be something related to the story line- like beforeyou enter the Watershed, or after you conquer the Keep and kill the Baron... Some pivotal points in the story could be great points to respec, and then at a cost, perhaps a percent of accumulated gold, or being reset to the beginning of your characters current level or even being degraded a level on some difficulties. Whatever the TB decide upon will be fair for everyone, I'm sure.

I like these ideas.  It certainly would not be the first game that ever charged gold for retraining.  Maybe a separate optional quest for each character type to journey to a school, or temple to learn new ways of improving themselves.  Would a donation to the temple or training camp be too much to ask?  Definitely agree with getting a chance after conquering the Keep.  You are still early in character development and enough time has passed with your builds to know where you might have made serious errors to correct.  Those first 12 character levels are the sweet spot after that it takes longer to raise levels and your prior investment in talents is much harder to change.  

[plunk]

Other games would allow infinite grinding. So the gold cost is just a fraction of time lost. In a game without grinding, gold and XP are much more valuable. Limited gold and XP means each respec is an irreversible hit to the end game, and end up just having the player restart their game in the long run.

[mrsarfa]

Hi Everyone!

First post here, so be gentle.

I just downloaded HoS Elite a few days ago as part of the Amazon App Store promotion. Since then, I've become a bit obsessed...

I'm playing on Normal difficulty and am currently in the middle of Ep1 (about to fight the Shaman boss) and I'd like some advice on my group. I did zero research on this board until now, so my build has developed completely organically as I tried various things out and found what works (so far, anyway). I'd appreciate any advice you can give this newbie about where to go from here, what will become useful later in the game, etc. Thanks!

The basic strategy of all my battles:

Vraes stands up front and deals and absorbs a ton of damage. I've got him using a sword and shield and it seems to work well. Tamilin is usually a few paces behind him wreaking havoc with her bow. Kjartan and Kyera are strictly support roles -- buffing, debuffing, and healing. Choking Ash and Ethereal Anguish are my best friends. Kjartan will throw the occasional Firebolt if doing so will kill an enemy that otherwise would survive the round. I pre-buff everyone with all the buffs I have before each fight. I burn through a TON of SP potions.

The builds:

Vraes - Level 12
10 Str, 4 Dex, 8 Con, 5 Wil, 3 Int, 3 Kno
10 Bla, 3 Ham, 3 Pol, 2 Lead, 3 Lore
SavageS 3, StoneS 2, Phalanx 1, NatMas 1, Feroc 1, CrushB 2

For attacking, I basically only use Savage Sweep and my basic attack. I've found that Ferocity and Crushing Blow miss too much for my tastes. My general strategy is that I'd rather hit all three times with blows that do ok damage than hit only once with a blow that does great damage. When an enemy has Choking Ash and Ethereal Anguish on, he basically never misses. I keep him buffed with Pureflame and Warder's at all times and with Stone Skin, Phalanx, and Natural Mastery as much as possible. With all his buffs on, enemies miss him maybe 50-60% of the time.

Tamilin - Level 12
5 Str, 9 Dex, 6 Con, 4 Wil, 5 Int, 4 Kno
1 Bla, 7 Bow, 5 Lore, 4 Sec, 4 Ste
AimedS 3, Farsight 1, DeadInt 2, Blacknight 1, Disarm 1, Pick 2

I keep Tamilin perma-buffed with Blacknight and have her lead the party. I also try to keep Deadly Intuition on as much as possible, but it doesn't last very long, so she's probably without it more than she's with it. Because she leads most of the time, I also try to keep her buffed with Pureflame and Warder's, just in case she caught up front at the start of a battle. So far, she's been able to dodge or at least survive the occasional attack (*knock wood*). After the start of the battle, she stays a bit behind Vraes and picks off enemies with deadly precision.

Kjartan - Level 12
3 Str, 4 Dex, 4 Con, 7 Wil, 10 Int, 5 Kno
2 Pol, 5 Sor, 7 Conj, 2 Lore
Firebolt 2, Choking 4, Pureflame 2, Immolation 1, BurningB 1

Kjartan is all about the Choking Ash and Pureflame Shield. I'm starting to get into Burning Blades lately, too. He throws the occasional Firebolt, but it doesn't do much damage. I've found Immolation to be useless (tiny damage and misses a ton). It is not uncommon for me to end the round with Kjartan still having 4 AP left.

Kyera - Level 12
5 Str, 3 Dex, 5 Con, 4 Wil, 9 Int, 7 Kno
3 Ham, 2 Pol, 4 Inv, 6 Conj, 6 Lore
SmitingB 1, MT 2, EA 2, Warder's 3, Sac 1, HolyRet 1

Kyera has the least to do from round to round. Her Warder's Shield lasts forever, so all she ever really does is cast Ethereal Anguish and the occasional heal. I've got her equipped with decent armor and shield, just in case she needs to jump in front of Tamilin or Kjartan, but she is definitely not a fighter. Like Kjartan's Immolation, her Holy Retribution does no damage and misses a lot, so I never use it. Many times, she'll end the round not having done anything (7AP).

Problems so far:

1) I am completely dependent on bottlenecking large groups of enemies. Vraes is the only one that can absorb any kind of consistent damage, so I need to keep the rest of the group separated from the enemies or they'll fall quickly. Even the mighty Vraes will fall if he gets surrounded by too many Giant Rats (I hate those things!).   I'm worried that if I ever get put in a situation where there is no bottleneck for me to take advantage of, I'm toast. I have 4 deaths at the moment and all 4 came during one battle (Fighting Ratkin at a bridge. Just before North Vault, maybe? I don't remember.). I finally was able to survive by running my party about 25 squares away to a bottleneck and fighting there.
2) As I mentioned above, I burn through SP pots like you wouldn't believe. Vraes and Tamilin use a TON of SP as I normally use their empowered attacks and only very rarely use their basic attacks. This might be a problem with me, though, and not my build.
3) Kyera has nothing to do a lot of the time. I hate ending the round when she still has 7 or 5 AP, but there just isn't really that much for her to do.

I guess that's it. Thanks, in advance, for your help and advice and sorry for the long post!

[CdrPlatypus]

mrsarfa Welcome to the game!

I suggest reading this thread from the beginning when you get time and also read the combat mechanics thread startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/6711/combat-mechanics

So let's look at your group...

With your talent/skill/attrb points spread as they are right now I would consider restarting as there is no respec in game and lvls take longer and longer to com by after the point you are at

Break it down!

With he exception of the healer choose 2-3 talents to invest in per character

Re Vraes. With all the strength he is packing if your targets are hit with choking ash before he swings he should be able to hit most of the time without savage sweep. If you want the near 100% hit of savage sweep that is fine too, however it means your point in crushing blow and ferocity are wasted atm. Your talents are spread too thin. If you are using sword and sheild it is worth it to invest a lot more in phalanx then you have. Phalanx gives parry (strong defense dice rolls for melee, armor, and uber defense roll against ranged) I would have him at something like savage 2, phalanx 5, bos 1

Re Tam: To make deadly int last longer invest points in lore. Its worthi it to recast in battle and keep it up 100% of the time. I would take one point out of pick and aimed shot and put them into deadly int.

Re: KJ Ok so the big thing with the magic characters in this game is if you want to do spell dmg you need to have a focused build for it. Otherwise you won't hit much. If you want an immolation wizard conj should be 4 and sorc 8, Burning blades 3, immolation 3. KJ can do some massive aoe dmg. He just has to be built specifically for it. Another oprion, one of my favorites is a 1:1 build of Choking Ash: Fireball with 1:1 lvling of conj : sorc after conj is at lvl 4. It works very well

RE; Kyera One of the hardest character to build out because their are so many different ways you can take her.
She can deal good dmg, but you have to choose hammers or holy spells and have to focus skill points for it. Out of your group she is currently the worst built (sorry)
With he original 4 heros I like to run her Hammers and warders shields

If you are going to lvl EA you should bank points for it Only use EA 1 /4 / 6... using the lvls in between the major upgrades is a waste of sp. EA is the most analyzed and debated about talent out of the whole game I suggest you read the following thread for an explanation: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/7025/angst-joy-ethereal-anguish

Apart from that there is a lot of good information on this board and in the ironman threads on in the main hos board. Good Luck and Have fun!

[En1gma]

Welcome to the forum! I'm sure you will find no shortage of advice here!

I have posted a ton of builds here, mostly because I'm never happy with how they come out so hopefully I can be of assistance.

Builds tend to work best when the characters specialize their roles- I have had builds where just one or two misplaced points irk my OCD to the point where I just delete them. That being said almost every build can be recovered, especially on normal. I would think about how you want each member to help the others... Very soon you will find that it becomes increasingly difficult to get by with only a single tank, so I would suggest going Kyera's Constitution, and maybe work on her hammer skill- she can take a hit- not too many mind you, but she is an adequate and necessary helper when it comes to the original four.

I would strongly suggest leaving Aimed Shot alone, and focusing the next several points into Deadly Intuition, as this is her most important ability for pure damage dealing due to the crit boosting capabilities it grants.

KJ looks pretty good, boost Ash to one more level and it will see you through the remainder of the episode. After that I would again- decide what you want him to be doing. If you want Direct Damage, go FB or Immolation and a few more points of BB. If you want more support for the party, consider more Pureflame, and BB to support group damage.

Vraes needs to specialize- if he keeps taking too much damage, focus on Phalanx/Stone Skin. If you need consistent damage go for more Savage Sweep. On normal the enemies aren't great at dodging swings, especially one they get hit with Choking Ash, so continuing with Crushing Blow and or Ferocity could be viable.

Long story short, welcome to the group. There are lots of awesome people here, and I'm sure there are many other suggestions from some of them

[En1gma]

(Just do yourself a favor and buy Selen... Best two dollars I've ever spent on a game in my life....)

Selen is the perfect Yin to Vraes's Yang, providing everything that you could be missing by using Tam... She can tank, do ranged damage and curse ap while doing so. If you only buy one character, she is the one you need.

[crimsonshadow]

I second that Selen is da BOMB!

[CdrPlatypus]

I Third that. Selen is my fav character because she is so flexible. Although I say buy them all! Cuase then you have 16 diff groups to blow your mind while trying to figure out a team build!

[mrsarfa]

Thank you all for your advice. The two links you posted to other threads, Gundamgoth, were especially helpful. Thanks.

I have since realized that specializing in just one or two talents is the way to go, but, as I said in my post, I went into the game completely blind, as it were, with no knowledge of what talents become available, what the game is like later, etc., so my first few levels were spent putting a point here and a point there to just test everything out and see what works/what's fun for me. My second party will definitely be a lot more focused.

Speaking of my second party, I've actually already purchased both Selen and Fyona. The latter because I've been having so many problems finding things to do with Kyera during battles and the former because she just looks like a lot of fun. Before I start using them, though, I thought it might be good to play through once with the standard characters, so I haven't touched them yet. Maybe I'll start a new game with one or both in the party.

As an aside, I just defeated the Shaman boss handily. I was expecting waves upon waves of bodyguards, etc., but the whole thing was much easier than all that. Probably because I'm playing on Normal. Everyone cooperated by only attacking Vraes and he only needed healing every second or third round or so because most enemies missed him more than they hit.

Thanks again for the help! If and when I come up with a overarching strategy for my next party, I'll be sure to post it here.

[tenbsmith]

Welcome aboard Mrsarfa, I think most of us experimented with our first couple of groups creating builds that may have spread the point around a bit more than optimal... I know I did. It's part of having fun while you learn the game.

[En1gma]

Once you get the hang of the game, and start new groups, by the time you get to the Vermin Undertunnels you can usually tell if youhave a decent group or not... My favorite group so far got put on the shelf because of the crazy damage increases the rats get down there... Themed parties are fun to mess around with, too... An all ranged group with Kincaid using Throwing Knives, Selen using a bow, Kyera with her Retribution and Banishment, with KJ debuffing and using FB or AoE spells... Or Strickening builds with Fyona..... Even if they don't work out, they're fun to experiment with until you find what works best for you...

[CdrPlatypus]

mrsarfa You're very welcome. We all help each other out on the forums.

Fyona is fun and has a unique talent to help with magic dmg. (Holy Strickening), but you should really give Kyera a second chance some time. She is very capable of dealing dmg. tenbsmith 's Travelers Build, which is earlier in this is a good example of how to build her out as a melee dmg and off tank, and then John Robinson Likes to use Kyera as a spell caster and he has posted the most detailed group plans on this fourm. It's for a diff group of characters, but this thread of his has a template for building a spell caster Kyera: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/9071/team-crimson-rain

All I'm saying is don't discount any of the characters. This game is crazy deep. Most Characters Have at least 3 viable different builds

[johndramey]

mrsarfa, welcome! You've already got a bunch of advice from the people in this thread, so I won't slam you with more. Just wanted to welcome you to the party and reiterate the fact that HoS will, more than likely, eat up your first couple groups. Once you get a feel for the game you'll start to do well but don't be discouraged by a few duds.

Speaking of duds, got a new group I'm working on. My last group (which I posted in here) got a little boring. I started that one on Normal cause I was feeling pretty rusty but just was walking through most of the game.

My current build is a Nightmare build and I'm going back to the basics. By that I mean, not using a full IAP character party. Instead, I've got what I think to be a pretty damn versatile group going on. Granted, I'm only now just going through the farm holds, but the group has so far been able to hold its own against almost everything.

Group Name Tanking Crew
Difficulty Nightmare
Members Kincaid (Dueler), Kjartan (Wizard), Fyona (Paladin), Tamilin (Thief)

Concept for the team
My main idea was to split my party into two main parts, the front and the back team. The front should be focused around dealing large amounts of damage while avoiding as much incoming damage as possible while the back should be focused on weakening enemies and picking off any weakened enemies -or- pesky ranged troops. My front troops are Kincaid and Fyona while the back troops are Kjartan and Tamilin.

Detailed builds
underlined attributes, stats and talents are the focal points of the build

Kincaid
Attributes Str 5 / Dex 7 / Con 9 / Wil 3 / Int 4 / Kno 4
Skills Blades 8 / Thrown 4 / Leadership 2 / Lore 2 / Stealth 2
Talents Lunge 1 / Darting Steel 2 / Sure Parry 4 / Cunning Footwork 1

Kincaid is going to be my main damage dealer up front. I decided to focus on Sure Parry as a good way to avoid damage and boost his defensive ability and pushed it to 4 right away to give him some early tanking potential. Cunning footwork further increases his longevity and gives him a bonus to crit, while Darting Steel allows him to weaken enemies and deal ranged damage when needed. His weapons are the best 1AP light blade and the best 1AP throwing knives he can equip. His items are focusing on increasing defensive stats as well as pumping up crit.

Fyona
Attributes Str 5 / Dex 4 / Con 9 / Wil 5 / Int 5 / Kno 4
Skills Hammers 6 / Invocation 2 / Leadership 3 / Lore 4
Talents Zealous Strikes 1 / Consecrated Defense 2 / Shield of Cortias 1 / Battlefield Devotion 2 / Righteous Fervor 0

Fyona is going to be my main tank, she's focused on busting up defensive as high as possible while bashing heads in when needed. Consecrated Defense is an early focus point for her, letting her boost up her defense to high levels while dealing good damage. Shield of Cortias will help her a little more while also supporting Kincaid, and Righteous Fervor will help even more. She's not at the level to get access to it yet, but it's earmarked and I'm saving a couple skill points for it. I decided to push up Battlefield Devotion over healing aura as it will allow more focused healing and require less talent points in the long run. Her equipment is focused on pushing armor as much as possible, heaviest armor and all kinds of trinkets. Her weapon is the biggest, heaviest two handed hammer she can lay hands on.

Kjartan
Attributes Str 3 / Dex 4 / Con 4 / Wil 7 / Int 10 / Kno 4
Skills Polearms 2 / Sorcery 6 / Conjuring 5 / Lore 2
Talents Firebolt 1 / Choking Ash 3 / Pureflame Shield 1 / Burning Blades 2 / Meteoric Shockwave 0

Kjartan is my pure support character this time around. Burning Blades allows him to punch up everyone's attack power while also boosting crit chance for Kincaid and Tamilin. Choking Ash makes every enemy into a big, easily damaged meat sack while Meteoric Shockwave (when he gets access to it) will keep them all weak as kittens. He basically hangs back and makes all the enemies ineffectual while trying to avoid any kind of combat. His equipment is focused on boosting his SP since that's his most important trait.

Tamilin
Attributes Str 5 / Dex 8 / Con 5 / Wil 4 / Int 6 / Kno 4
Skills Blades 1 / Bows 6 / Lore 2 / Security 3 / Stealth 5 (11)
Talents Aimed Shot 4 / Precision Pick 1 / Disarming Touch 1 / Deadly Intuition 2 / Ranged Onslaught 0

Tamilin is my ranged support, using Aimed Shot coupled with Deadly Intuition to make her arrows hit like high speed commuter trains. Ranged Onslaught will further augment her ranged oomph, helping her to soften enemies for Kincaid and Fyona. Her equipment is focused on boosting Ranged accuracy and crit chance primarily and stealth secondarily.

I really think this group will go far, the only two big weakness I see are:
1)a lack of -AP attacks. I can get one with Fyona if I really need to but I'm still on the fence about it. So far I've been able to eliminate pretty much everything within 1-2 rounds due to the absolutely disgusting amount of damage Fyona, Kincaid and Tamilin can put out when fully buffed and focused on a single enemy.
2)Kincaid, while he has a really good chance of avoiding most attacks he can get tagged occasionally. His HP isn't too hot, so I've been focusing on getting his CON up as high as possible. However, one unlucky round can potentially kill him so I always keep him buffed as much as possible.

So what do you all think about this? This is my first really serious Nightmare Ironman group. So far they've been having a hell of a time, stomping through ratkin as if they weren't even there. They are a bit SP hungry, but I can always buy potions or head back to camps when necessary!

[plunk]

AP curses are overrated in Episode 1.

There aren't that many enemies that deal huge amounts of damage. They definitely become useful in Episode 2. At least for groups not invested in not getting hit by enemies.

[CdrPlatypus]

plunk agreeded. When I first started playing I focused on AP curses, but have switched to going for higher dmg and avoidance.