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Post by fallen on Apr 19, 2014 18:49:37 GMT -5
Now on IGS!
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Post by algesan on Apr 19, 2014 19:51:46 GMT -5
Heh, maybe I should fire up my Vince-Selen group now that the RHK side quest is fixed. Solid QS Selen + not a speck of Pinning Shot, I need to see how uber QD Selen is in E2. Maybe Selen is good enough to sniff out that army hiding in that area you just carefully scouted out (I'm serious, step up to hit trigger, no trigger, ease along hut line, step up to hit trigger, rinse, repeat). It also might mean that when Vraes shouts "We're surrounded! CHARGE!", it isn't a code for "run away like little girls until you can find a chokepoint they won't outflank and hope the potions hold out". fallen - You do what you have to, if it really needed rebalancing, better do it now than later. |
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Outsider
Exemplar
It is always better to hit, than to miss harder.
Posts: 301 
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Post by Outsider on Apr 19, 2014 20:53:22 GMT -5
Heh, maybe I should fire up my Vince-Selen group now that the RHK side quest is fixed. Solid QS Selen + not a speck of Pinning Shot, I need to see how uber QD Selen is in E2. Maybe Selen is good enough to sniff out that army hiding in that area you just carefully scouted out (I'm serious, step up to hit trigger, no trigger, ease along hut line, step up to hit trigger, rinse, repeat). It also might mean that when Vraes shouts "We're surrounded! CHARGE!", it isn't a code for "run away like little girls until you can find a chokepoint they won't outflank and hope the potions hold out". fallen - You do what you have to, if it really needed rebalancing, better do it now than later. Now I see what you're complaining about..personally it's got my blood pumping..I love it! And yes, use the bottle neck! Lol |
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Post by fallen on Apr 19, 2014 23:50:46 GMT -5
Vraes is famous for yelling "Chaarge!" at all the wrong moments. He starts this trend in the Red Hill dungeons  |
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Post by algesan on Apr 20, 2014 6:18:24 GMT -5
Well, at first it was more code for "Let me charge to the front of the line".....
Selen looks pretty much unchanged. She can stand hard and dodge a bunch, but low hit points means a bad round in rolling the bucket of dice means *splat* since she doesn't have the hit points to tank. Which she did and triggered a bug in RH Storerooms right at the end, but that is 2.1.27 and I'll write it up later.
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2014 10:00:20 GMT -5
Pinning Shot(1) through Pinning Shot(4). For the first 4 Talents points you spend in P.S. the cost and effects have remained unchanged.
The first change occurs in Pinning Shot(5) which still includes the -1 AP acquired in Level 4 with a small adjustment.
v2.1.28 Pinning Shot(5) 12 SP, -6 Parry, -7 Dodge, -1 AP
v2.1.29 Pinning Shot(5) 13 SP, -5 Parry, -6 Dodge, -1 AP
The significant balancing change is occurring in P.S. 6 through 10.
The changes have also created a very interesting opportunity.
Dance of Shadows is now available at Level 6 instead of 12 lasting 8+Lore Turns.
Under normal circumstances in the old version you would have to wait until Level 13 to to spend your first point in Dance of Shadows.
As soon as Selen reaches Level 6 she can add a point to Dance of Shadows.
Pinning Shot(5) without Dance of Shadows(1) 13 SP, -5 Parry, -6 Dodge, -1 AP
Pinning Shot(5) with Dance of Shadows(1) 13 SP, -5 Parry, -6 Dodge, -1 AP, +1 MP, +3% Critical, +3 Stealth
It is possible to mitigate the changes in Parry/Dodge using Flash Freeze or Choking Ash but that is for another thread.
Just some food for thought.
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Post by contributor on Apr 20, 2014 10:09:25 GMT -5
Wait, you don't get -1AP until level 5 now? It used to be 4
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2014 10:11:30 GMT -5
Wait, you don't get -1AP until level 5 now? It used to be 4 Sorry it was a little unclear. Yes the -1 AP still begins at Level 4. As I had said Level 1 through 4 remained unchanged. I was trying to illustrate where the first balancing change occurs. I edited the post to make it a little clearer. Thanks  |
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Post by fallen on Apr 20, 2014 12:37:07 GMT -5
The -AP and AoE on the Talent were not changed. I opted to fix the issue by changing SP cost and Dodge / Parry penalties in higher levels instead of reducing AoE / -AP.
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eltoreador
Consul
[ Elite & Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 80
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Post by eltoreador on Apr 20, 2014 13:50:32 GMT -5
Hello! some questions I wanted to ask:
Will it not become too hard to play Selen has a warrior with 2 blades without Quicksilver Defense? I'm actually playing in brutal, killing ratkin for Oskahold, level 8 with the paladin, Vraes and Selen siting together like a wall, and so they take each one some damage, (Kjartan killing ennemy archer with firebolt) and the paladin help the other with his magical skill who boost the defense of the team, and it still that without QD, Selen will dye in a round quite oft (and I actually I put all her points in dexterity, will need lot more in constitution I think). Or she will have to attack and go back, each turn, difficult technique same with some more MP.
My question is, without QD, will the people not choose to play Selen only like an Archer, because it will be too risquy to play her like a warrior and to wait for level 12 for having a good protection? And because of that , if they all choose to play her like an archer, will QD not be useless for an archer?
But thats just my feeling, and because of that I wanted to ask, and understand how now we could play Selen like a Warrior, and understand a little more why you made this choice. Because for me Selen was a good alternative to Tamlin, for the people who don't wanted to play a classic archer, but a special archer, or an "assassin".
Still that it is just some feedback, and the game is really become more enjoyable than at the beginning, and I really love it.
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Post by algesan on Apr 20, 2014 17:35:07 GMT -5
The way I would do it: Save the last point before 6th as normal, but instead of dumping two points into Quicksilver, drop one in Dance. Then simply don't spend any more Talent points until 12th and dump them all into Quicksilver. It isn't/wasn't really until a few levels after 12 that Selen started to shine as an off tank that didn't have to hit and run all the time and with the new AI letting critters run right past melee characters without suffering a free shot attack you can't afford to have a broken line. Selen functions fairly well as an archer even with the base Loose talent (an artifact of the combat system).
If you can't handle having an average archer during the early levels, then go with Tami, but even with Selen's flaws in melee despite Quicksilver (and pumped Warder's), she ends up being a better melee character, which is pretty much a requirement even with a choke point in a lot of places because of the AI sending NPCs on long trips to your rear area (even pulling them out of combat with the front line to wander off) and "teleport" encounters where the NPCs pop in cleared areas behind you.
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Post by johndramey on Apr 20, 2014 19:00:00 GMT -5
The -AP and AoE on the Talent were not changed. I opted to fix the issue by changing SP cost and Dodge / Parry penalties in higher levels instead of reducing AoE / -AP. My group is still focusing on Pinning Shot with Selen (well, I'll be filling her out with punishing blades soon) and the balance changes aren't really huge in my opinion. I gotta be a little more picky with firing it due to the increased SP, but it's still a very effective curse. I'll let you know how my play through goes, but so far I'm still in love with Pinning Shot and have contributor to thank for pushing me to try the talent! |
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Post by contributor on Apr 21, 2014 2:34:20 GMT -5
johndramey, yes I still think that a Pinning Shot Selen still has a lot of potential and in some ways making Dance of Shadows available earlier is better for that, because you can start building her critical ability sooner. eltoreador I also think that Selen can still be built very capably as a melee fighter. It may just be that you can't leave her on the front line at the end of the turn. She has to dance in, land some big hits and then slide back out to leave Vraes to take the brunt of the attack. And in some ways have dance come earlier is better for that too, because it gets her extra MP which is very helpful for a light melee fighter. As an off tank though it might just be that you can't just rely on Quicksilver D. You will get some defense from that (and after all the Shaman, where you reach level 12, is not that far into the game), but you may also have to either boost it with Warders Shield or curse enemies Accuracy or AP. So even though I whined about Selen getting "nerfed" I don't think that she has by any means been wrecked and the balancing was probably necessary.
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Outsider
Exemplar
It is always better to hit, than to miss harder.
Posts: 301
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Post by Outsider on Apr 21, 2014 14:30:23 GMT -5
Vraes is famous for yelling "Chaarge!" at all the wrong moments. He starts this trend in the Red Hill dungeons Vastly outnumbered trying to rescue Valent Koda, Vraes takes one look at the situation..."We've come to pay the ransom for the Emissary - in blood! Charge!" Uhhh, nope. LOL!! |
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Post by hobiecat on Apr 21, 2014 15:34:23 GMT -5
Vraes is famous for yelling "Chaarge!" at all the wrong moments. He starts this trend in the Red Hill dungeons Vastly outnumbered trying to rescue Valent Koda, Vraes takes one look at the situation..."We've come to pay the ransom for the Emissary - in blood! Charge!" Uhhh, nope. LOL!! That's exactly where I'm at too and I couldn't stop laughing. In my mind, Vraes' line was quickly followed up by everyone else screaming, "Run away! Run away!" a la Holy Grail. |
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