Ship Designer and Squadron Formations

[khamya9]

Jun 26, 2015 15:26:58 GMT -5 elwoodps said:

Jun 26, 2015 13:43:54 GMT -5 khamya9 said:

Correct. But what you can do is have a conveyor belt of tankers with a few actively refueling your combat ships, some moving up towards the front lines, some retreating to a nearby world, and some at that world refilling themselves in green spots.

Sorry, I didn't realize that was what you meant by chain.

Yes that would definitely work. What I'd envisioned is more like a the Bucket Brigade of tankers.

I believe that's what arndaemon was asking about and you correctly answered him. I was expanding your answer to give him a possible work around.

[Brutus Aurelius]

This was possible in the Alpha with Range 6 Refuel and Carriers that could Refuel each other.

[En1gma]

Here's a new design I just started pumping out.

Basic Carrier Class hull, outfitted with the best Lance I could slap on it. It has helped lock down a 3 sided front against a massive Nyktos and Sydtax infestation. Hitting consistently for over 40 damage, just under 50 with Assault Craft Support.

[En1gma]

Here is another of my new favorite designs. I remember the discussion about the max evasion fighter, and how unfair it was... I then decided not to make them completely unhittable, but to make them sorry they ever tried. I give you the Backbite Fighter. Built to be a full on counter measure, able to attack, hit, dodge the counter-attack and retaliate on its own. This craft is meant to be a set and forget weapon platform... Basic Barrage allows it to counterattack when out of W/F, and Precision Barrage ensures its own attack hits the mark.



Level 6, Fast Reactor 12.
Weapon System: UHV Starfighter- 1 AP, 12-21 Dmage, +3 Attack, +3 Defense.
Armor: Enhanced Duranium Cladding- +5 Armor, +1 Stealth
Auxiliary System 1: Titan Crew- +6 Damage, +5 Gun Attack, 6% Critical
Auxiliary System 2: Enhanced Solar Probe- +2 Any Attack, +6 Armor

The result is a consistent craft that while expensive, is top of the line fighter material. It doesn't pack a serious wallop, but it deals enough damage to be a serious threat, especially when paired with an Assault Craft.

[En1gma]

Next up, the sister craft to the Backbite Fighter- The Dogbite Fighter. This particular fighter moves a few points around in terms of Guns/Pilot, focusing more on defense as there are other fighters able to draw counterattacks exclusively. The Dogbite is the brawn of my Fighter Packs, its 2 AP weapon ensures at least mid 20s, if not higher.



Level 6, Fast Reactor 12
Weapon System: GC Cannon IV- +3 Attack, +3 Defense
Armor: Enhanced Duranium Clading- +5 Armor, +1 Stealth
Auxiliary System 1: Titan Crew- +6 Damage, +5 Gun Attack, 6% Critical
Auxiliary System 2: Enhanced Solar Probe- +2 Any Attack, +6 Armor

[En1gma]

So, for the other aspect of this thread...

I am genuinely considering scrapping my entire fleet. I'm in year 12, against level 4-5 Xeno ships, and I have become completely enamored with the sheer, unadulterated power of the mighty Battlecruiser. Seriously though, honestly considering scrapping every Railgun Cruiser in the fleet, scrapping the entirety of my Carrier and Fighter fleets (keeping maybe one out of my 4 squadrons, then taking out the rest.).

For the price of one Battlecruiser, I could pay for 2 of any other of my ships, and they hit harder than any four of my other ships put together.

Here is what I'm thinking here: (PER DEFENSIVE FRONT) 2-3 Battlecruisers (Railgun setup), 2-3 Torpedo BattleCruisers, then 2 Assault fighters to keep the offense hot. I will keep my favorite Torpedo Cruisers in the mix, because they still hit like trucks, but everything else isn't pulling their weight. Even my favorite fighters aren't cutting it any more, which saddens me...

Once I begin eradicating the Xeno presence, the fleets can easily converge to form an indestructible barrier of F--K YOUR WORLD UP, so that the Heavy Transports can do their thing.

Has anyone done anything as drastic as COMPLETELY retooling their ENTIRE fleet to use primarily Battlecruisers, or am I being irrational here?

[eternalheathen]

Jul 7, 2015 12:24:30 GMT -5 En1gma said:

So, for the other aspect of this thread...

I am genuinely considering scrapping my entire fleet. I'm in year 12, against level 4-5 Xeno ships, and I have become completely enamored with the sheer, unadulterated power of the mighty Battlecruiser. Seriously though, honestly considering scrapping every Railgun Cruiser in the fleet, scrapping the entirety of my Carrier and Fighter fleets (keeping maybe one out of my 4 squadrons, then taking out the rest.).

For the price of one Battlecruiser, I could pay for 2 of any other of my ships, and they hit harder than any four of my other ships put together.

Here is what I'm thinking here: (PER DEFENSIVE FRONT) 2-3 Battlecruisers (Railgun setup), 2-3 Torpedo BattleCruisers, then 2 Assault fighters to keep the offense hot. I will keep my favorite Torpedo Cruisers in the mix, because they still hit like trucks, but everything else isn't pulling their weight. Even my favorite fighters aren't cutting it any more, which saddens me...

Once I begin eradicating the Xeno presence, the fleets can easily converge to form an indestructible barrier of F--K YOUR WORLD UP, so that the Heavy Transports can do their thing.

Has anyone done anything as drastic as COMPLETELY retooling their ENTIRE fleet to use primarily Battlecruisers, or am I being irrational here?

I just did something very similar, actually. Garden year 20 or so, xeno's at level 8, and my old tech just couldn't keep up. Retooled everything. Fighters with all the bells and whistles, but much fewer of them. I built torpedo cruisers into fleet design for the first time, with those lovely 3ap torps. My battlecruisers have torps and guns, and have proven to be effective as switch hitters. The major change for me was building strike cruisers(I think?) With massive boarding shuttles. They've been scoring one shot kills almost every round.

[Cory Trese]

Great thread -- thanks for all the awesome posts!

[giddion]

In the early game I use modified cruisers and carriers as fighters. I'd call them Heavy Strike Fighters I guess. They are extremly effective early game and mid game, but start to become overly expensive around the mid game (measured by tech tree advancement), at which time I change to a fighter and carrier (refuel/repair) design and cruisers taking a more traditional torpedo role.

Early game torps are less useful I find and hevy strike fighters are VERY effective and efficient. At the tail end of the early game, start of mid, I introduce torpedo/gun hybrids into my carrier fleet. They are weighted towards torps as the priority, but also have Precission/Heavy (I usually mix it up, 1 or 2 of each, depending on the amount of space to cover and the level of the threat) attack. This helps to reduce the close combat clutter, providing ranged support and final cleanup with guns (especially good for that 10-20% required). It also means that if tehre is a greater threat from xeno missles, you can send them in close, or hold them back for ranged attack, when there are more mass drivers.



The mosquito and dragonfly are the hybrids (torp/gun), with a focus on torps.
Generally, I like to vary the design slightly, so they may have a slightly different crew or slightly different stats, but they serve the same role.


EDIT:
They all have scan 3 capabilities, which is great with the 3AP. This enables good planning during combat, with increased field of vision. Which is extremly handy as all of these ships have zero sensors.


Here is a closer look at the previous V.3, Tick and Wasp.

[odomi]

I have a "joker" in my back pocket.
I have used this design when I had stepped from hard to crazy.
This design helps you buy time to either repair, refuel other front line attackers or if your fleet is depleted and just need time to build a whole new fleet.

This mission has a slim to none survivability.

Super cheap and takes minimum turns.

Please say hello to:
The Decoy

Level 1 strike fighter
base weapons, maybe some added defense if you would like or if reactor allows.
throw all ship and captain points to durability, evasion, stealth and pilot.

Tactics:
Intercept Xenos in pursuit of your ailing fleet. Taunt them, draw fire, evade and give them the run around.

[Cory Trese]

How do the Factions building them respond?

[En1gma]

At some point, Cory Trese, I find it better to sacrifice a single ship to bide time so that a half dozen who would have died or otherwise can live- yes losing one ship is bad for morale, but how bad is half a squadron?

[tenbsmith]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

odomi's most recent post and design are similar to the shield/punchingbag design posted in "Punchingbag Ship, Recon in Force, Defeat in Detail & Xeno AI" thread in this subforum.
startradersrpg.proboards.com/board/40/tips-techniques-4x#ixzz3hmhAgziz

At the end of the day, it is useful to have an inexpensive, durable fighter that is quickly produced.

I've just produced a few "Scout" Fighters that retain some offensive capability, uses the maximum Level available for an inexpensive boost to hull strength, the least expensive fast reactor with 4mp, the second to least expensive gun, and the precision strike attack.

[odomi]

Aug 3, 2015 15:12:10 GMT -5 tenbsmith said:

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

odomi's most recent post and design are similar to the shield/punchingbag design posted in "Punchingbag Ship, Recon in Force, Defeat in Detail & Xeno AI" thread in this subforum.
startradersrpg.proboards.com/board/40/tips-techniques-4x#ixzz3hmhAgziz

At the end of the day, it is useful to have an inexpensive, durable fighter that is quickly produced.

I've just produced a few "Scout" Fighters that retain some offensive capability, uses the maximum Level available for an inexpensive boost to hull strength, the least expensive fast reactor with 4mp, the second to least expensive gun, and the precision strike attack.

Haha, and here I thought that I was so brilliant to think of such strategy.

I use the same strategy in scrimmages and does not necessarily need a barebone fighter. As I said in my previous post, I used it for survival going to a higher difficulty until you get the road map down in winning.

As long as you have 4mp, with intact 100% hull, do a taunt and run to pull the rest of xenos away from your ailing front line. Make a run towards Xeno territory, nothing sets the anger pheromones faster than one of your ships rubbing close to their colonies. Do the loop-d'loop around the back end, and watch them give a chase while listening to the benny hill theme song. As you come about back to the front line, your capital ships are ready on ambush positions and fighters for the finish.


Edit:
Ok, so I researched and read the whole thread that tenbsmith pointed to.

So far, even on crazy difficulty, what you all described regarding xeno AI behaviour, I can attest that it is accurate. It's an exploit for the players to use low level ships to be targeted by Xenos. It seems that they target the closest in proximity.

So the exploit is, if you want to draw fire to one of your ships, get them to be the closest to the bunched up xeno formation and have the rest retreat but would still be on striking distance for the next turn. The intelligent targeting AI tactics seem to work only if everybody is bunched up.
I never paid attention before, although it was in the back of my mind and can see a bit of a pattern on who they choose to attack. But not significant enough where my fleet loses that I had to dig deeper and change tactics.
But I will certainly keep an eye on their targeting choices.
The game is not boring at all, Cory gives us the goods and we try to defeat his game. But on higher difficulty, it could use a little more spice.
I'm not a programmer, I don't know anything about writing codes and AI behavior. The only chance that the Xenos have is to out number you. Once your tech is high enough, the battle is won at mid-game, you are just waiting for the Invasions to be steong enough to mow through the Xeno infestation.
The real challenge in higher difficulty is economy.

But this whole post can be thrown out the window regarding the Garden on impossible, I haven't tried it yet so I don't know what to expect. But so far on hard and crazy, this seem to be the case.

I take it as: if this is what I have in front of me, then I will play and win. I don't know how much more Cory can do to make it more difficult. If he does make it more difficult in mid level (hard) then, how much more difficult it would be on Impossible? That's the whole idea I had on the other thread on picking factions that may make the game harder for you.

I will start playing on impossible and see if there is a significant step from crazy. Then, if it is, you are probably playing on level too low for your experience.

[tenbsmith]

Well... odomi, you were brilliant, it just so happens other people were similarly brilliant before. Great minds and all that. Jolly Good!

I think odomi's analysis is good. One game can't do everything and it may be out of scope for 4X to develop complex tactical AI smart enough to avoid the lure of the punchingbag approach when appropriate. I say when appropriate, because generally, if you find an enemy ship alone you should crush it, the trick is knowing when there are more important things to do. Anywho, that may be far enough off topic for ship designer thread...