Post by pendell on Jul 14, 2014 7:01:19 GMT -5
Well, I'm in the concluding phases of my first 1.2.3 game: Normal level, 64x64 map, 1 enemy (Zenga). I hope that other players will chime in to say whether they agree or disagree with me.
I'm sorry to say this after Cory and Andrew put so much work into it, but 1.1.19 was a lot more fun. And the reason for the not-fun is planetary invasion.
This is a map designed for two enemies but I'm playing with only one , because I don't trust my skills enough. The aliens rapidly grabbed 8 planets. I fenced them off and steadily out-colonized them, while fending off-never ending waves of enemies. Had 12 colonies when I finally went down the planetary invasion tree, +1.5K money, and 87K in the bank.
And that's when it came apart.
For my first invasion, I build 8 IWO JIMA class transports -- I gave them Heavy Drop pods, no armor, captain skill of 5 invasion, 4 repair, 1 stealth and 1 pilot (I don't know but i suspect invasion is related to guns, so I made sure they had at least 1 gun skill). I couldn't realistically improve the skills any further because I needed the ability to repair the transports. They had the following status: Durability 6, Shielding 4, Evasion 3 Sensor 4 Refuel 3. 10 guns.
8 transports should be able to take a single alien planet no problem , right? WRONG.
I was deliberately using scout only because I wanted the planet intact. Within 4 turns the aliens were down to about 5 population left, but my transports were all out of water! I brought up 2 carriers and had them dump ALL their water into the transports, and switched over from scouting to invasion, but at the end it was a lucky roll by my last transport with any water that finally purged the world -- it came down to ONE ROLL before I would have to take my entire task force and sail ALL the way back to my home worlds in order to try again. I imagine xeno fertility being what it is, if I'd done that I'd have to start all over again from scratch.
After this battle was over, I brought in a colony transport to recolonize the planet and surrounded it by a wall of cruisers and fighters. I had stuck my finger boldly into a cluster of all 8 occupied alien worlds, so they were kept very busy. There was simply no room for my transports, so they had to make the long slow trip back to the home worlds for repair and refuel.
While I was there , I found that 3 of my 8 transports were damaged to about 20% of their hull strength. With 4 repair a turn, this would take about 20 turns to repair them back to operating strength.
But Cadar Prime and the other worlds have 10 factories apiece, and the transports only take 40 cp to build , so they can build a brand new transport in 4 turns ...
You can see where this is going, can't you? It's cheaper to actually demolish the transports in place and build new ones than it is to wait for them to repair. I might change my mind if they had any worthwhile experience --- but according to the display, transports don't gain xp for successful invasions.
This I did. I but duranium cladding on the new ships (OKINAWA-class) in the hopes that armor would soak up damage. No go. Transports with armor get beat up just as badly as transports without. I researched down the tree to get angel and sephira-class drop pods and built new transports to replace the old (about 3 transports being demolished per turn). No change.
Then I went looking for upgrades which might increase my repair capability or my water-fuel. Again, no go. This is a transport. The only upgrades I can get for it are a colony module (which I do not use -- too much mass for the reactor. I send a separate colony ship for recolonization) or troops -- I cannot install sails or trained crew or anything else the might make things better.
Then I looked down the tech tree for anything else that might help me, and I find planetary invasion 3. However, since I concentrated on the planet construction side of the tree, I am 13900 research points away from getting it -- assuming I pursue it with single-mindedness and ignore everything else. My empire is pulling in 157 RP per turn -- it'll be more than a hundred turns before I can even get the technology because it is at the very end of the tech tree. Who has time for that?
So I'm in the process of building a SECOND wave of transports to replace the first. A lot of this is because I have a mania for taking planets intact , both for my own bases and because I want more high-quality planets, which the xenos seem to be good at picking out. But to get this done, I am going to need 16 transports to take a single planet! 8 transports to move in until their out of water, then the second wave to come in when the first runs out of water -- which is very possible on a high-rad planet.
I'm not sure what the Trese brothers had in mind, but I don't think this is it.
The bottom line is that , at this point, I have 21 worlds and the Zenga xenos have 4. The outcome of this game is not in doubt. But the need to repair or refuel transports is adding something along the order of 20-30 turns to the game per planet captured. 20-30 turns of doing nothing in some cases but press "end turn" while waiting for my transports to be in shape to try again.
This isn't more fun -- it's just dragging out a foregone conclusion.
So my specific issues are with the transports: They take too long to repair and refuel. The additional handicaps for them might change the course of the game if I was playing with multiple enemies, but with only one it's simply added a few hundred turns to the game length -- turns on which I'm not doing much. That isn't fun at all.
The really problematic thing is the need to take a planet intact. That's a luxury at the end of the game, but it is MANDATORY for your first base in alien territory. And that's a real problem -- your first invasion is the most critical to take a planet intact, but you're also least prepared to do so, since you're going to be at the end of a long supply line and low on water anyway. Better hope you roll well and that first planet is of very high quality! Otherwise you're going to have empty transports orbiting a bare rock in space. It's not unfeasible that a bad roll would make ANY further invasion of the aliens impossible due to range constraints, and the game unwinnable.
How would I fix this? Well, to be blunt, if I had my druthers I'd want the 1.1 mechanic back where invasions cost no water and transports took no damage from doing it. Yes, it's more broken for the player but it also means a quicker game. IMO this game does NOT need to be longer, especially when "longer" means nothing but turns of repair, refurbish and refuel!
If I can't have that, something I would like very much is some way to repair transports more quickly. Intuitively, it seems to me that a planet with high factories could repair a damaged transport in a fraction of the time it would take to build a new one from scratch, and that would be proportional to the amount of damage received. As it is, Cadar Prime can fully repair a damaged transport in 20 turns but can build a completely new one in 4! I ask you, is that reasonable?
I don't know what we can do about the refueling issue because I understand that would break the game balance. I guess I could live with it if we can make scout much more lethal. As I said, it is imperative that we take the first planet in enemy space intact, and 8 transports should have no problem doing so. But they do. It came down to one lucky roll and if I'd had to leave and start over again from scratch, I'd have probably rage quit.
These, then, are my experiences. I encourage other players to chime in to say whether they agree or disagree. And above all, if anyone is playing a shorter or a faster game since the changes.
Thank you, Trese brothers, for all you do. I sincerely hope this comes across as constructive rather than as anger. May you continue to make some of the best games in the app store!
Respectfully,
Brian P.
I'm sorry to say this after Cory and Andrew put so much work into it, but 1.1.19 was a lot more fun. And the reason for the not-fun is planetary invasion.
This is a map designed for two enemies but I'm playing with only one , because I don't trust my skills enough. The aliens rapidly grabbed 8 planets. I fenced them off and steadily out-colonized them, while fending off-never ending waves of enemies. Had 12 colonies when I finally went down the planetary invasion tree, +1.5K money, and 87K in the bank.
And that's when it came apart.
For my first invasion, I build 8 IWO JIMA class transports -- I gave them Heavy Drop pods, no armor, captain skill of 5 invasion, 4 repair, 1 stealth and 1 pilot (I don't know but i suspect invasion is related to guns, so I made sure they had at least 1 gun skill). I couldn't realistically improve the skills any further because I needed the ability to repair the transports. They had the following status: Durability 6, Shielding 4, Evasion 3 Sensor 4 Refuel 3. 10 guns.
8 transports should be able to take a single alien planet no problem , right? WRONG.
I was deliberately using scout only because I wanted the planet intact. Within 4 turns the aliens were down to about 5 population left, but my transports were all out of water! I brought up 2 carriers and had them dump ALL their water into the transports, and switched over from scouting to invasion, but at the end it was a lucky roll by my last transport with any water that finally purged the world -- it came down to ONE ROLL before I would have to take my entire task force and sail ALL the way back to my home worlds in order to try again. I imagine xeno fertility being what it is, if I'd done that I'd have to start all over again from scratch.
After this battle was over, I brought in a colony transport to recolonize the planet and surrounded it by a wall of cruisers and fighters. I had stuck my finger boldly into a cluster of all 8 occupied alien worlds, so they were kept very busy. There was simply no room for my transports, so they had to make the long slow trip back to the home worlds for repair and refuel.
While I was there , I found that 3 of my 8 transports were damaged to about 20% of their hull strength. With 4 repair a turn, this would take about 20 turns to repair them back to operating strength.
But Cadar Prime and the other worlds have 10 factories apiece, and the transports only take 40 cp to build , so they can build a brand new transport in 4 turns ...
You can see where this is going, can't you? It's cheaper to actually demolish the transports in place and build new ones than it is to wait for them to repair. I might change my mind if they had any worthwhile experience --- but according to the display, transports don't gain xp for successful invasions.
This I did. I but duranium cladding on the new ships (OKINAWA-class) in the hopes that armor would soak up damage. No go. Transports with armor get beat up just as badly as transports without. I researched down the tree to get angel and sephira-class drop pods and built new transports to replace the old (about 3 transports being demolished per turn). No change.
Then I went looking for upgrades which might increase my repair capability or my water-fuel. Again, no go. This is a transport. The only upgrades I can get for it are a colony module (which I do not use -- too much mass for the reactor. I send a separate colony ship for recolonization) or troops -- I cannot install sails or trained crew or anything else the might make things better.
Then I looked down the tech tree for anything else that might help me, and I find planetary invasion 3. However, since I concentrated on the planet construction side of the tree, I am 13900 research points away from getting it -- assuming I pursue it with single-mindedness and ignore everything else. My empire is pulling in 157 RP per turn -- it'll be more than a hundred turns before I can even get the technology because it is at the very end of the tech tree. Who has time for that?
So I'm in the process of building a SECOND wave of transports to replace the first. A lot of this is because I have a mania for taking planets intact , both for my own bases and because I want more high-quality planets, which the xenos seem to be good at picking out. But to get this done, I am going to need 16 transports to take a single planet! 8 transports to move in until their out of water, then the second wave to come in when the first runs out of water -- which is very possible on a high-rad planet.
I'm not sure what the Trese brothers had in mind, but I don't think this is it.
The bottom line is that , at this point, I have 21 worlds and the Zenga xenos have 4. The outcome of this game is not in doubt. But the need to repair or refuel transports is adding something along the order of 20-30 turns to the game per planet captured. 20-30 turns of doing nothing in some cases but press "end turn" while waiting for my transports to be in shape to try again.
This isn't more fun -- it's just dragging out a foregone conclusion.
So my specific issues are with the transports: They take too long to repair and refuel. The additional handicaps for them might change the course of the game if I was playing with multiple enemies, but with only one it's simply added a few hundred turns to the game length -- turns on which I'm not doing much. That isn't fun at all.
The really problematic thing is the need to take a planet intact. That's a luxury at the end of the game, but it is MANDATORY for your first base in alien territory. And that's a real problem -- your first invasion is the most critical to take a planet intact, but you're also least prepared to do so, since you're going to be at the end of a long supply line and low on water anyway. Better hope you roll well and that first planet is of very high quality! Otherwise you're going to have empty transports orbiting a bare rock in space. It's not unfeasible that a bad roll would make ANY further invasion of the aliens impossible due to range constraints, and the game unwinnable.
How would I fix this? Well, to be blunt, if I had my druthers I'd want the 1.1 mechanic back where invasions cost no water and transports took no damage from doing it. Yes, it's more broken for the player but it also means a quicker game. IMO this game does NOT need to be longer, especially when "longer" means nothing but turns of repair, refurbish and refuel!
If I can't have that, something I would like very much is some way to repair transports more quickly. Intuitively, it seems to me that a planet with high factories could repair a damaged transport in a fraction of the time it would take to build a new one from scratch, and that would be proportional to the amount of damage received. As it is, Cadar Prime can fully repair a damaged transport in 20 turns but can build a completely new one in 4! I ask you, is that reasonable?
I don't know what we can do about the refueling issue because I understand that would break the game balance. I guess I could live with it if we can make scout much more lethal. As I said, it is imperative that we take the first planet in enemy space intact, and 8 transports should have no problem doing so. But they do. It came down to one lucky roll and if I'd had to leave and start over again from scratch, I'd have probably rage quit.
These, then, are my experiences. I encourage other players to chime in to say whether they agree or disagree. And above all, if anyone is playing a shorter or a faster game since the changes.
Thank you, Trese brothers, for all you do. I sincerely hope this comes across as constructive rather than as anger. May you continue to make some of the best games in the app store!
Respectfully,
Brian P.
. 
