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Post by abysmal on Oct 25, 2014 10:42:17 GMT -5
I think when I made that post I was implying that rewards on hard was a lot more than I was expecting. Tbf I do think it is mostly due to loot drops (game wants kincaid to use spears for some reason).
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Post by vdx on Oct 26, 2014 12:54:38 GMT -5
From the in-game selection screen:
Easy: Easy battles, rich gold.
Normal: Average battles, abundant gold.
Hard: Difficult battles with balanced rewards.
Brutal: Intense battles, reduced gold.
Nightmare: Pitched battles, scarce rewards. Skilled players only.
"Scarce" means: in short supply, scant, scanty, meager, sparse, short, hard to find, hard to come by, too little, insufficient, deficient, inadequate, lacking, wanting.
Thus, giving the in-game description, the gold rewards at the Nightmare level of difficulty should leave players needing gold, rather than beig able to go on massive shopping sprees.
Also, being able to buy an unlimited supply of potions throws off the balance of SP intense parties, which I speak from experience because I play parties with Level 10 talents. The stronger abilities with higher talent levels is off-set (i.e. balanced) with the higher SP costs forcing a player to choose between using a few really strong talents or a lot of weaker talents. With unlimited potions, it becomes a matter of using unlimited higher level talents.
On that note, I have a Nightmare Party with a Vras using Level 10 Ferocity 10 for three attacks, every round, every fight. EVERY FIGHT. With hefty investments in Phalanx Shield and Warders Shield, he's pretty much untouchable defensively as well. With the unlimited supply of potions I can use Ferocity to off-set the reduced damage typically associated with the use of a Shield.
It took a bit to get the party up to full speed, but by picking talents and skills that adjust for the unlimited potions, a party cab be built that just dominates. Toss in a few IAP heroes (e.g. swap out the Cleric for the Paladin) and you get a party that is pure destruction. Afterall, the abundance of gold and potions means a never ending supply of HP potions too.
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Post by plunk on Oct 26, 2014 17:34:44 GMT -5
Okay that's just silly. 300 SP per round?
Hey developers reduce the gold or just remove the blatantly wrong gold descriptors in the difficulty selection.
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Post by fallen on Oct 26, 2014 19:13:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the post on this, I was already in process of making some changes. As mentioned in the second post on the thread, we are already working on a set of changes. Thanks for all the feedback! plunk - LOL  |
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368 
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Post by phaze on Oct 26, 2014 20:12:53 GMT -5
As a counter to Vdx and Plunk, your experience and views of the difficulty are based on much game experience and extensive usage of this forum.
That is not likely not representative of the total player community. Even on these forums, there are a range of players with very different views on the difficulty. Their view is just as valid a statement of the difficulty.
Your statement of too much gold and potions is based on your experience of having learned the game and knowing how to maximize the mechanics and exploit current battle mechanics. Good for you!
However, more people have not. All difficulties are available from the start of the game. It is therefore reasonable that all difficulties should be playable without diving into the forum for strategies or playing through multiple times to tweak characters just right.
A better policy wold be to have a difficulty that is better suited for experienced players that is explicit to that point.
The Trese brothers are not forcing you to open all chests and collect loot. Potions are not handed for quest completion. 'Scarcity' is relative to one's experience. An entry level player on nightmare may very well have no gold or potion stockpile. The loot drops need to strike a balance for a range of players.
Additionally, with the gold fix, my new party is at a scoring disadvantage compared to previous parties. I'll finish episode 1 with a lower score than the past I think. Further changes to the gold/loot systems make the ladder essentially pointless as new characters will not have a chance without a ladder reset against older scores.
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Post by fallen on Oct 26, 2014 20:35:51 GMT -5
'Scarcity' is relative to one's experience. An entry level player on nightmare may very well have no gold or potion stockpile. The loot drops need to strike a balance for a range of players. The most critical point in the discussion, imho. We'd always be making a mistake if we let the feedback of a few override balancing work and the feedback of many. |
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Post by plunk on Oct 26, 2014 21:16:51 GMT -5
Good thing then that the description for Nightmare states Skilled Players only
So if the player fails because they did something a first time SRPG player does, then it's their fault for picking a difficulty that wasn't for them.
Why even put these descriptions if they're flat out false. Like I said if the developers aren't going to adjust the difficulty to actually suit the description why not just remove them. Because, to be blunt, scarce rewards and this "Skilled Player" nonsense descriptors are a load of bull if Nightmare is still going to coddle "entry level players" and builds that require huge amounts of gold.
And this matters how?
If I select an initially available Hard Mode in a platformer, then it warns me that the difficulty isn't even remotely fair to beginners, and I die in the first 10 seconds, I only have myself to blame. Not the developers. The game warned me that a beginner will most likely fail, and I still went ahead. So why was it the developer's job to still baby me on Hard Mode?
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Post by fallen on Oct 26, 2014 21:22:25 GMT -5
plunk - thanks for the feedback. Seems like we don't agree. We'll keep working on improving (as stated in second post).
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Post by plunk on Oct 26, 2014 21:28:29 GMT -5
Disagree on what exactly?
That a beginner should still be able to play Nightmare and somehow reasonably expect any build to work?
That's ridiculous, when I played Nightmare I was fully expecting to fail. I've been honestly surprised at how easy it was. What player picks the highest difficulty on their first go that totes itself to be difficult and somehow reasonably expects to win? High difficulties are supposed to force players to play at the top of their game, not baby them.
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Post by fallen on Oct 26, 2014 21:34:53 GMT -5
We'd always be making a mistake if we let the feedback of a few override balancing work and the feedback of many. Thanks for the feedback! |
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Post by plunk on Oct 26, 2014 21:41:59 GMT -5
Which is why I'm not talking about Easy, Normal, or Hard. And I've even been ignoring Brutal (other than not lumping it in with the other three). I'm focusing specifically on Nightmare which given its description is for a smaller player base.
Nightmare is about the few.
If you're going to make Nightmare something that even "entry-level" players can reasonably play why even bother putting "Skilled Players" only. If you're going to let players buy all the equipment needed to outfit their party and as well as a ton of potions to fuel their entire SP pool repeatedly (which is a huge thing in a game without grinding) why say resources are scarce?
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Oct 26, 2014 21:51:11 GMT -5
I'm with plunk on this one. When I think of "scarce" resources I think of almost a feat of survival, barely scrapping by in a post apocalyptic world of every man/woman/ratkin/etc for themselves. Was Just thinking: Rather than just reducing gold further what about reducing potion drops from chests on Nightmare after the redhill dungeon escape? Solve two balance issues with one stone. As is INT is completely ignored right now. Reducing potion drops and gold could bring it back into the fold. |
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Post by slayernz on Oct 26, 2014 22:09:49 GMT -5
We'd always be making a mistake if we let the feedback of a few override balancing work and the feedback of many. Thanks for the feedback! Now it's just plain weird when fallen is responding to his own quote in the affirmative  I guess it's better than if he argued against himself and ended up agreeing to disagree. |
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Post by fallen on Oct 27, 2014 7:26:59 GMT -5
slayernz - yes, luckily I still agree with myself and my sanity is still in tact.
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Post by tenbsmith on Oct 27, 2014 8:23:19 GMT -5
ha ha, plunk, cut back on the coffee dude. :-) |
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