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Post by En1gma on Nov 9, 2014 11:05:19 GMT -5
Don't take this the wrong way, please...
While a few of these maps are amazing to play on, I'm sure, I am having serious issues getting games started on 80% of the Elite maps because there are simply no worthwhile planets to colonize at the very beginning.
For example the 32x128 map: This map is one that I have tried several times to get started because I really love the idea of a long hallway map. But there aren't any planets worth colonizing anywhere near where you start. To travel to find the nearest yellow or red giants takes several turns, they aren't anywhere near each other, so without traveling across the quadrant, you need to settle for white and blue stars that give useless quality, and you just need to deal with it...
So far I've only been able to get a good game going on the tutorial and maybe one of the Delga maps, just because of the scarcity of planets on the majority of maps. I understand that the colony ships were forced to deal with what was nearest to them, but for new players just starting to explore these maps they just paid for, only to not have any chance at a respectable start, so they won't play them and get frustrated. Just please consider reviewing the starting locations, I really want to play some of these maps, but without decent planets to start, I just can't get games going.
Thank you for reading this, and I wouldn't post something like this without really thinking about it first, so I hope I didn't offend. I really have made concerted efforts on almost every map in the game, and this post has been a long time coming for me because I wanted to make sure that I really couldn't get games started...
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 9, 2014 11:15:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep reviewing and improving the maps as much as possible.
When you are first building out, Colony Hive ships ensure minimum Quality ratings -- so it doesn't matter what type of System you settle.
I'll keep reviewing feedback and data from saved games people are sending in and work to continuously improve the game and maps.
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vylox
Consul
Colonial Minister of Clan Javat.
Posts: 89 
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Post by vylox on Nov 9, 2014 14:16:15 GMT -5
While I personally do not see an issue with the starting locations, I wouldn't mind seeing a random starting point on the maps.
Nothing specific. But possibly an option to select the standard or stock starting locations or random locations.
The problem would be adding in the code to ensure that your colony hive ships start relatively close to each other and not right next to the Xeno's random starting locations. A nice idea, but could be problematic to implement.
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 9, 2014 14:42:49 GMT -5
While I personally do not see an issue with the starting locations, I wouldn't mind seeing a random starting point on the maps. Nothing specific. But possibly an option to select the standard or stock starting locations or random locations. The problem would be adding in the code to ensure that your colony hive ships start relatively close to each other and not right next to the Xeno's random starting locations. A nice idea, but could be problematic to implement. I spent a good amount of time trying to come up with a really great random spawning location selector and ultimately couldn't make it work well enough that I wanted to use it. I did my best to select starting locations for each map -- and incorporate the challenge of that location into the map's difficulty flag. |
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Post by En1gma on Nov 9, 2014 15:32:15 GMT -5
A few of the maps don't even have 3 systems visible or near each other at the start. I feel bad that I brought it up, but like I said, most of these maps are unplayable for me because of the poor systems and the crazy distances between them, plus the lost tempo trying to find and then travel to them. I know you spent a lot of time on the maps and I'm not trying to take anything away from that... I just wish that there were areas in these maps that were more suitable for colonization.
And apparently this was a smiteable (I'm down a point from earlier so I'll assume it's because of this thread) offense to bring up, but you know that I really don't complain about much, and if I do it's because it's about something that bugs me enough to actually bring up. I have nothing but respect for you and your games, so I hope I didn't offend you guys, because it certainly wasn't my intention. This is a wish list, not a demand list, and I get that.
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 9, 2014 15:37:30 GMT -5
Wasn't my smite, at least. I haven't released a map yet that I haven't beaten at least once on Hard or Crazy.
I looked and couldn't find any maps where the first 3 systems were outside of the 3 turns.
I'll take an extra look at 32x128 since you mentioned that one by name. I definitely am always work on the maps, and this is something new to think about.
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Post by En1gma on Nov 9, 2014 16:22:25 GMT -5
If it helps, I can make a list of the maps I'm talking about tonight, so you can see what I'm trying to point out. I'm just thinking about the people who try the free version first, then upgrade to Elite. All three free maps have great starting zones, and are very easy to get started on. Once these players decide to upgrade to Elite, they start a new game on one of these maps and suddenly there's nothing to colonize, or those planets are white and blue, with a few giants thrown in. I'm just trying to say that these players might be initially disappointed in the selection of planets and the scarcity of them in the beginning. I know personally that I just can't play some maps the way they are because of the way the systems are set up... You and fallen know where every planet is on every map, most people aren't privy to that information and need to delete many games because they don't know where to look. Thanks again for hearing me out, Cory Trese |
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AA
Templar
Torps away!
Posts: 1,382
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Post by AA on Nov 9, 2014 16:28:44 GMT -5
Luckily that won't be much of an issue for me simply because i have photographic memory En1gma |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 9, 2014 17:44:09 GMT -5
If it helps, I can make a list of the maps I'm talking about tonight, so you can see what I'm trying to point out. I would welcome specific guidance and details about which maps have given you this experience. I'll also look independently on my end to see if I can find anything myself. |
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Post by En1gma on Nov 9, 2014 19:05:42 GMT -5
Cory Trese- Have I thanked you yet for hearing me out? It would be my pleasure to go through the maps and tell you which ones I'm having issues with (and ones others could be as well)... Would you rather I take this to a PM to not clog the thread? I'll start from the top and go down the line, seeing if I can find what I need without too much trouble, I'll go over each map a few times and if it's one of the ones with a crazy hard start, I'll let you know... This might take me a while so it might be piece be piece...
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Post by abysmal on Nov 9, 2014 19:38:03 GMT -5
Actually, how about having the player dictate where the starting location is, and have a star on the location that you, the devs, prefer as the ultimate experience. Make it as an Elite bonus thing, and bam... over 100 new maps essentially provided within the hour.
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vylox
Consul
Colonial Minister of Clan Javat.
Posts: 89
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Post by vylox on Nov 10, 2014 13:39:11 GMT -5
En1gmaI still do not see the problem ypou are describing. I have played on all of the maps, and the one in particular that you mention happens to be one of the maps I prefer starting out on. While the start on that map and a couple of other appears to be slow at the start, either by planetary location or possible resource rolls. Progression through that map in the middle to late stages of exploration and colonization and fighting against the Xeno is easier to plan out. At least thats how it seems to me. Also, it seems that someone is running around tossing out smites, it appears that I have lost my 2 Karma points ;>
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Post by En1gma on Nov 10, 2014 14:09:05 GMT -5
I'm going through the maps one by one, trying to find the ones I was talking about... It wasn't as many as I had thought, certainly, but nonetheless I'll keep going through them... I've just had maps where it takes several turns of scouting to find planets, even more so if you need to scout with the colony ships. The 32x128 was the catalyst for me typing the post... There just aren't enough systems for me to play on that map, and I've tried several times to get one going, including failed mass exodus(es, ei?? What's the plural of exodus anyway?) In almost every direction...... Maybe it's just me, but I really have issues with the starting layout on some of these maps... On the plus side I did find a great map to play on, all 6 colonies except for Javat Prime have 20+ quality, and over 15 minerals. Javat rolled a 17 quality, but 22 mineral, so I let it slide  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 10, 2014 14:35:38 GMT -5
Updated Stars near starting location in "Rinze: 32x128 Map (53 Worlds)"
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vylox
Consul
Colonial Minister of Clan Javat.
Posts: 89
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Post by vylox on Nov 11, 2014 16:32:29 GMT -5
Cory TreseNeat. En1gmaI mentioned this a while back, but i guess I can say something again ;> The quality levels for planets is useful, however I prefer worlds with higher mineral count. Even at 12 years in, some of the colonies in my games with more than 16 or 17 Quality just arent using that quality. When you have Cadar Prime at 12M and 18Q with full mines and 20 population, using only 12 of the potential 18 for the maximum. It might be because I prefer to have as many of my colonies as possible running a positive income, but the only time i generally have any type of struggle with Quality for colonies is when its 6 or under with having 16+ for minerals.... (Nice Javat world, 9Quality, 27Mineral its currently running 7 of 9 quality filled while having 26 of the mineral being worked, I havent researched the upgrade to the orbital refinery). I find it much more entertaining to have the low quality as a balancer or limiting factor, otherwise maintaining colonies would be easier !!
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