Farsight Upgrade Description

[Officer Genious]

Upgrading Farsight from level 1 to 2 only seems to give an increased SP cost for no apparent reason? There isn't an extended range on it or the chance to find more things, so why would I upgrade? Placed this thread here because I suspect it's really just an unclear description.

[John Robinson]

I think it is meant to be a natural progression not a bug. As levels of Farsight increase, the Range increases, and AP cost goes down.
In other words, to get the range to 7 you must first have a prerequisite of 2 Talent points already in Farsight.

This table might help? Tamlin's Talent Table of Hide and Peek

Kharjtan's has his own "Farsight" Talent called Spirit Sight which follows a similar progression.

Kharjtan's Talent Table of Flame and Fortune

[Officer Genious]

Dec 11, 2013 18:10:27 GMT -5 John Robinson said:

I think it is meant to be a natural progression not a bug. As levels of Farsight increase, the Range increases, and AP cost goes down.
In other words, to get the range to 7 you must first have a prerequisite of 2 Talent points already in Farsight.

This table might help? Tamlin's Talent Table of Hide and Peek

Kharjtan's has his own "Farsight" Talent called Spirit Sight which follows a similar progression.

Kharjtan's Talent Table of Flame and Fortune

But the SP goes up, not down. It kinda feels like I'm "downgrading" every two levels instead of upgrading. Following the progression chart, every two levels has you investing in the skill for more SP and no tangible benefit before getting the range to expand. It just doesn't feel like an upgrade.

[John Robinson]

Officer Genious

That is correct. The first Farsight range increases at level 3. The point is, Farsight and Spirit Sight are not intended to increase range with every Talent point you invest. It is a progression. Take a look at Kharjtan you will see he sits at range 9 for two levels before range 10 of Spirit Sight is available. So yes, you have to spend a level or two increasing the SP cost.

I think the idea is to keep the talent in sync with the Character level. Think of it as becoming an expert in Farsight, that wouldn't happen overnight, but takes (dedication/cost) and (time/level). In some games it prevents "Overheating" a spell or skill before a character has reached a higher level, which will happen in HOS as there are a limited amount of Talents points each Character has to spend.

[Officer Genious]

Hmm, interesting argument. If character level is an issue, then why not just lock farsight with better range for higher-leveled characters, the way the most of the talents were locked until level 3 (and until you reached the campsite)? I wouldn't mind waiting for a stronger talent. I just mind having upgrades that don't benefit you (basically, being a talent point sink).

[John Robinson]

Officer Genious But the SP goes up, not down. It kinda feels like I'm "downgrading" every two levels instead of upgrading. Following the progression chart, every two levels has you investing in the skill for more SP and no tangible benefit before getting the range to expand. It just doesn't feel like an upgrade.

Yes for Kharjtan, and Tamlin the SP cost rises. There is a tangible benefit, it occurs in AP not SP.

For example when you hit Farsight 3, the cost in AP changes from 5 to 4. At Farsight 6 the AP goes down from 4 to 3.
When you reach Farsight 10, the AP cost goes down from 3 to 2, with a range of 10.

Every turn Tamlin starts with 7AP. So casting Farsight 1, she will have 2AP left over.
At Farsight 10 she will have 5AP unspent. This might not seem much of a trade off considering the jump in SP cost.

Remember she doesn't have a +AP move only Talent like Vincent and Vraes (Burst of Speed), so this seems similar to me.

During play, I have many times got too close to the enemy after casting Farsight. The fewer AP Farsight uses the more I have left to run away, or maneuver to safety. Sometimes staying one square ahead of a Deathkin until reaching the safety of the rest of the party can mean the difference between life and death.

There are two sides to this coin. I would gladly trade a lower SP cost progression, with a slower AP reduction.

[John Robinson]

Dec 11, 2013 19:35:57 GMT -5 Officer Genious said:

Hmm, interesting argument. If character level is an issue, then why not just lock farsight with better range for higher-leveled characters, the way the most of the talents were locked until level 3 (and until you reached the campsite)? I wouldn't mind waiting for a stronger talent. I just mind having upgrades that don't benefit you (basically, being a talent point sink).

I can see what you mean. However every Character Type has unique starting talents. Vraes Stone Skin 1, is not very impressive, I wouldn't want to wait for my Character to reach level 3 to get it. Myshana's tears same thing.

I'm thinking Cory and Andrew designed them with the long game view of characters eventually being able to reach Level 64.

Bye the way, I really enjoy trying to figure all this out together. Thanks

[Officer Genious]

I enjoy this too, and honestly I wouldn't have thought of some of these arguments, so thank you for taking time to type them out!

Actually, I've found Vraes's Stone Skin to be well worth keeping early on as he is well-built to be in the fray, either as a brawler or a sitting tank (I believe it was slayernz who said "tickle Vraes with sword and fangs"?). Farsight I feel falls under that same category as well, but for such a necessary skill it strikes me as odd that level 2 of Farsight is a talent point sink with little tangible benefit until your next investment (i.e. wasted level up) whereas Vraes's Stoneskin upgrade (more or less central to his class) DOES have a tangible benefit in both health AND armor.

I just realized you made that talent list- why didn't I see that before?? Aaahhh! Thanks for making and linking those tables, they really do make everything easier!!

[John Robinson]

A Major Thank You for noticing the tables they are a lot of work. I will continue to update them keep up with releases that directly effect the Characters.

I got fallen to make a sticky for my thread Players Guides: Heroes and Monsters (Tables)  which ties all the tables together and shows update progress, as well as future expansion.

I sent a PM asking fallen to move the "Farsight Upgrade Description" thread you created to Tips and Techniques. I think our discussion has been very helpful, and we could get more folks point of views.

I hope that's ok?

[Officer Genious]

Yeah, that's fine. Loving this discussion!

[fallen]

Moved the thread to Tips & Techniques.

Officer Genious - we still have some work to do with Farsight in expanding its trap sense and ability to de-fog areas. Those will help give it a more even progression.