Ideal playthrough to max XP [SPOILERS]

[contributor]

This is a thread for the really anal HOS player who wants to try and wring every last bit of Experience Points out of the game. It's probably not for your first playthrough if you just want to experience the story. It's also something of a work in progress, so if you have input feel free to add it and I'll update the original post as necessary.

Numbers in [brackets] indicate the max player level for a given dungeon. Playing them at higher levels will not give more xp because monster level is capped.

Oh, and, this contains SPOILERS. So don't read ahead if you don't want to spoil the story.

Thanks to matrim and phaze for the following information!

Episode 1:
There are no respawns in E1
To max xp clear all levels and get static rewards as early as possible

Static rewards:
80 xp for completing the Nordhall Troll quest
40 xp for visiting Captain Lukai's tomb in Vermin Warren
200 xp for returning to warm caves after killing the shaman
40 xp for exploring the back of the Temple of the Thirteen
40 xp for revisiting the bridge in Redhill Dungeons on the return trip


Episode 2:
Clear Red Hill Storerooms [17]
Clear Lowland Crossroad [17]
Clear Brellim Pass [17] DO NOT enter Vrenhaulm
Clear Darkmoss Ironwood [29+] and Wetlands [29+]
Clear Prospector's Path [22]
Fight 1 necessary fight in Crag Peak [29+]
Clear Sea Road [29+]
Clear Bone Pass Koda side [29+]
Return and Clear Trade Outpost
Clear all Brellim Pass [17] and Brellim Peaks [19]
Proceed to boss fight in Orcin Stonghold [24] in as few battles as possible (4)
Do not clear remaining Orcin Caves [22]
Clear all Braey's Territory [17-22] including Ironwood Ridge [22] and Bone Pass [29+] except Gholla
Minimum clear Long Trail [28] and Snow Canyon [28]
Clear Hunting Lodge [28]
Accept to go to the City of the Dead with Braeys
Clear Ironwood Ridge [22] and get E3 gear Braeyshalum
Braey's levels [17-22] respawn clear them and Lowland Crossroad [17]
Clear all Orcin Caves [22] except Orcin Stronghold [24]
Clear Orcin Stronghold [24] when you reach level 24
Do Krete quest from Trade Outpost and clear River's Edge
Reclear Darkmoss [29+] and Prospector's Path [22] levels
Clear all Underforge [22-24] levels
Clear Talia River Village [28]
Clear Long Trail [28] and Snow Canyon [28]
Clear Gholla levels [29+] getting xp on NW side of Gholla Outlook
Clear Torrent Swamps [29+] and Darkmoss Heart [29+]
Clear Crag Peak [29+]
Reclear Sea Road [29+] and Bone Pass [29+] both sides

Static Rewards:
100 xp for visiting the Baron's Library
80 xp for clearing the Hidden Room in the Storerooms
120 xp for completing Storerooms quest.
120 xp for each traveller's shrine visited in Darkmoss
100 xp for visiting the Overlook in Gholla
500 xp following the first Gholla Outlook battle
xp following the second Gholla Outlook battle
500 xp for killing Hagathrun / additional xp may be available in E4 if Hagathrun is spared
500 xp for talking to Elias Braeys following Gholla
xp for killing Vlotgar / xp is granted in E4 for the Pale Walker quest if Vlotgar is spared



Episode 3:
There are no respawns or known level caps in E3
To max xp clear all levels and claim static rewards as early as possible
Teams containing Vincent gain more xp because they can access the Platinum Peaks level.

Static Rewards
300 xp for each Darkmoon Blossom collected for the Storm Brothers
xp for killing Tevensa - If you will be choosing this reward it makes sense to do this quest first in E3 / 2000 xp and 3 extra battles are given in E4 if Tevensa is spared and you go to OWH with her
500 xp for visiting Vladin's Hand after completing the Storm Bastion quests.

[fallen]

contributor - about the Pale Walker quest --

SPOILER: Click to show

Yes, you can go to the CoD with Braeys and still end up with that branch of the story. That is entirely based on your choice about Vlotgar.

[matrim]

EP 1 max exp - just make sure to get quest exp and exploration, and clear all fights. Some miss completing the quest in the warm cavern after clearing the shaman. The earlier you get these static exp rewards (earlier levelwise) the better exp.
EP 2 max exp (I think) - first zone in Braeys territory, loop back to Darkwood, Prospecters, 1 necessary fight in crags peak, Sea Road, bone pass, (loop back), outpost, Braeys lands, Orcin Cavern minimum clear (you can get to the end fight in only 4 encounters total), then clear rest of Braeys side (including ironwood and bone pass) except Gholla, Braeys respawns, minimum snow pass clear (6 encounters I think between both zones), join Braeys side, ironwood, get episode 3 equips (no fights past ironwood necessary), Braeys respawns, starting zone respawns, Orcin Caves (except vast Cavern, clear last zone when you ding Level 24), outpost Krete quest, darkwood respawns, prospector respawn, Underforge, loop back do the rest of snow pass, Gholla (make sure to get exp at the NW end of town), swamps, clear the rest of crags peak, Sea Road respawn, both sides of bone pass
EP 3 - I don't think I have level capped any zones in episode 3. I do white wolf first because Gloomers path has worse exp than any of the other episode 3 zones. Max exp will require Tavensa kill. Storm brothers, collect as many flowers for ward as possible and turn in immediately (static exp reward), CoD...
EP 4 - again, I don't think order can make much of a difference. I do C8 first for the legendaries, then OWH, then Weaver, then Ogres (have only done this episode 3 times, might not be optimized).

[matrim]

Some spots I am unclear on for max exp

Killing Vlotgar - I suspect this is the lesser exp option as there seems to be a storyline related to him being alive. However TBs usually balance that so maybe there would be a similar storyline even if you kill him.

Killing Tavensa - I suspect killing her is better exp, however leaving her alive and choosing her to guide you to OWH results in extra fights so maybe this tips the scales. Not sure on this one, I think it's close.

[contributor]

Thanks, I'll probably try to reformat that and put it in the OP

[crimsonking]

I am quite sure the upper levels of the underforge should be done much earlier, as they have a low level cap.

A list of each area's level cap would be interesting.

[contributor]

Jan 16, 2017 16:40:43 GMT -5 crimsonking said:

I am quite sure the upper levels of the underforge should be done much earlier, as they have a low level cap.

A list of each area's level cap would be interesting.

If people have that data, I could try to find a way to include it. If people happen to have data from killing Vlotgar, Pale Walker or from Tevensa that would be cool to. I'll see if I can collect any of that, this time through. Time to science the s#!t out of HOS.

[contributor]

matrim, I put your E1 and E2 suggestions in to hopefully clearer directions. I did my best, maybe you could check it for me. One thing I didn't see was the Talia River quest. Maybe others could help with the static rewards. I'll try to monitor them as well. If other's have input it is welcome. I'll keep tweaking this thing. I'm sure phaze could probably help us out.

[phaze]

I can help some but am limited by personal life stuff.

In Ep 1, visit Lukai's grave for 40 Xp reward 😉

Matrim covered a very thorough playthrough, likely more streamlined than my approach.

I would emphasize get all static xp rewards early asap.

Vlotgar is an unknown quest at the moment that will be figured out later.

Gholla outlook has an unresolved component as well. Staying your hand gives more xp I think than killing. But killing him implies that someone else is saved.

In my current playthrough, I will kill tevensa to compare the xp. One note though, in Ep 4 there is a tevensa shrine that gives 2000 xp. Does it still work if you kill her? Killing her also removes three battles at the OwH for reference.

For real max xp, we need to know the level caps. However, the only caps I have ever hit are the outdoor levels around braeys areas and the underforge. I think. Given that, matrims list may have more flexibility.

I can do static rewards later.

[matrim]

Level caps that I know of

17 - storerooms, lowland Crossroads, Brellim Pass

19 - Brellim Peaks

22 - waning moon pass, glacial Wetlands, frozen lake, icy caves, vast Cavern, ironwood Ridge, cult Underhouse, Underforge, construction Depths, Underforge pits, great makers Forges, prospector's pass,

24 - Orcin Stronghold, Smith's Forge, Temple of the Arachnid, Great Maker's Workshop

28 - Long Trail, Snowy Canyon, Hunting Lodge, Talia

29+ (unknown, haven't hit the cap yet) - Bone Pass, Darkmoss Ironwood, Darkmoss Wetlands (these might be lower but it is necessary to clear them to progress to Underforge, I personally have not hit the cap), Crag's Peak, Sea Road, Gholla Outlook, Torrent Swamps, Darkmoss Heart

Some mistakes I made earlier

Clear Orcin Caverns except Orcin Stronghold till 24 (vast Cavern has a 22 level cap)
Earlier clearing of Underforge starting levels I don't think will yield more exp. The Braeys side has a lot of low level zones which pretty much forces you there for max exp. By the time you leave you should be Level 22 which is good for clearing a majority of the zones in episode 2 (at max exp)
Talia should be done after Underforge and as close to level 28 as possible for max exp but before any of the 29+ zones.

[phaze]

To be clear you're using level cap to refer to the player's level correct?

Really Vast Caverns is 22? I have never noticed that. Strange given the prior maps are higher.

I am pleased that I have more or less optimized my path naturally. 😉 As long as one chooses to clear Braes first, I think the story sweeps players along so level caps aren't too much an issue.

I have room for improvement, mostly on the UF. But I tend to do that at a higher level because it is so easy to die there. Max xp does no good for iron man if one dies.

[matrim]

Yeah the numbers are player levels. As far as I know, the difficulty does not factor into level cap. A zone will have the same player level cap regardless of difficulty.
On nightmare these caps translate to monster levels thusly
17 - 21
19 - 23
22 - 26
24 - 28
28 - 33 (note, this is a big jump in difficulty, Krete, Ratkin, Talia cultists are especially tough here. This is partly due to the double level they gain and partly due to the low yield of these player levels. You gain 1 attribute, 1 skill, and 1 talent per 2 levels from 24-29 which is worse than almost any other spot in the levelling charts)
Vast Caverns is the same level cap as all the other caves in the Orcin Cavern except the Orcin Stronghold which is the last cave. Maybe you are thinking Vast Cavern the last cave?
I personally don't think there is much room for improvement, especially in UF. I went through it recently and I was capped in every zone except at the very beginning and through Darkmoss (and the uncapped zones I mentioned). The most significant experience gains come from knowing what zones respawn and doing them before starting episode 3 and then getting the complete zone of monsters a second time (I always missed Sea Road before and that is about 5000 early exp which could be an entire level in episode 4).

[crimsonking]

I am quite sure the level caps on the upper reaches of the Underforge as well as the Darkmoss Ironwoods and Wetlands is lower, but I can't prove it right now.

[fallen]

This is a really interesting discussion that has made me want to revisit the caps. I have a feeling that the way that it is setup -- you either do the Orcin maps bumping up against the max level, or you do the Underforge bumping up against it. I am not sure that is optimal for the game's challenge curve, it may be better to raise the level cap on both sets of areas so that you can get the full challenging experience on both.

Would be interested in player thoughts on this one. Did you find one or the other too easy / less fun because it was second?

crimsonking - the Underforge and Orcin realms both range from 20 - 24. They are very, very equivalent in level cap. Underforge has slightly higher minimums (+1-2).

Also, at matrim noted at some point, by the time you reach E3, most maximums are too high to have an effect. However, depending on your order of content, some minimums may still be in play.

[matrim]

fallen On nightmare at least I can say for sure that all the Orcin Caves except Orcin Stronghold are Level 22 cap (Stronghold is 24). UF, all upper levels are 22 level cap (including the scripted battles in the Underhouse) and Smith's Hoard, Temple of the Arachnid, and Great Maker's Workshop are 24. I have capped UF on almost all my run throughs and am 100% on these numbers on nightmare at least. I have never seen a zone that caps at level 20. Darkmoss area go at least to 24 (that was my level when I went through them this time after it respawned, mobs were level 28).

My strategy hinges on doing Underforge late because of the difficulty of certain monsters in that line up (Spider Hosts, Spider Host Initiates, and Forged Spiders). I feel because of the weak levels the players gain during this phase (24-29 are low yield, either a talent point or attribute and skill per level, never 2 talents in a row) that Underforge remains challenging throughout despite being the same level as the mobs. If you were to uncap, I feel the cultist lineup would be too strong without some tuning down (high spot, lots of range, big damage, very tanky). I can tell you that the level 33 Cultists in Talia were REALLY tough, I could barely hit the Spider Host. UF is already such a slog (like 150 fights in that place) that if every fight was uphill it would take me weeks to get the drive to go through it (it already takes a week of focus).

Onto enjoyability. I find UF's strength is its story, one of the most compelling in Heroes. I do not find UF easy at all (on nightmare, always done second). Orcin Caves are definitely easier (this could be because Level 18-23 is such a strong level range for the characters, getting maxed out talents and skills really kick synergies into high gear) but I would put their challenge at average. If I were to do Orcin Caves second it would be easy (I skip most of the Orcin Caves usually and come back and do them when they are capped and it is never hard unless I roll really bad, those guys can hit hard if they connect). If you were to uncap them, I would like the scaling to be looked at as I feel that episode 2 mobs scale into ridiculous levels that are not reasonable (level 28+, nightmare, can't speak for other difficulties).