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Post by John Robinson on Apr 22, 2016 0:51:15 GMT -5
xdesperado You are so right! I've had little faith in the current state of S&S for those exact reasons. Getting a rocket assist of mp to make a kamikaze run against uncursed/undamaged monsters makes no sense. Especially since she will get hung up in the infantry front lines while the archers sitting another 6 to 8 tiles behind the skirmish lines just skewer her. All the characters are at their best when supporting the others. "Fools rush in where Angels fear to dread". 
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 22, 2016 0:10:47 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before elsewhere but in my opinion for a Surprise round melee Talent to be good she's going to need some extra MP added. Far to often even when you win Surprise the enemies are a good 7-8 or more squares away meaning that initial surprise turn without some sort of ranged attack or lots of extra MP gets spent in attempting to gain positional advantage. This is especially true considering that Selen with her light blades or 1H swords isn't likely even with a critical to take out opponents with a single attack. Giving it added utility outside of the surprise round will definitely help make it more attractive, but if it's best stuff is tied to the surprise round only then she'll need some way to capitalize on that regularly. I agree. Here's a fever dream. On stealth win. If S&S is an AoE there would be more chances of getting a kill. But wait there's more. Now take a cue form Vrae's Juggernaut. She kills she gets extra mp/ap. How does that sound to you xdesperado? Am I just being a happy idiot watching my own delirious mental movie? |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 22, 2016 0:01:04 GMT -5
The thing about Steel and Shadow is that it is a Stealth Surprise Talent. So, that nature of it is not going to go away. Much like the improvement to Tamilin's stealth surprise Talent, we're interested in making it useful even when you aren't in a Surprise Round. Tamilin's now includes a great -Armor curse for every day use. But, both Talents are always going to have a larger part of their balance dedicated to working in the Stealth Round. Okey Dokey I know whatever you come up with is always an awesome surprise.  This afternoon I was thinking "What would make me want to put 10 talent points into S&S?" When you lose the stealth roll, for the "everyday use" making Steel and Shadow an AoE like Kincaid's Storm of Steel is something I would definitely plug 10 points in to. If that happened I hope the SP cost will be lower than Kincaid's SoS. That's no small beer. Now that she hits level(50) I've been plugging points into Sly Look. It wasn't a core talent in the plan and I started adding points to it at level(47). What a great talent Sly Look has turned out to be. I currently have it at level(5) and would gladly take it to ten unless something irresistible comes along. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 21, 2016 23:35:49 GMT -5
What ya bench? Finally broke 1,000 Steam hours played on HoS without using steroids. Violent mood swings, shriveled legs (and something else), skin disease, deformed jaw bone, blood shot eyes, but I don't use steroids! It's just the normal effects of playing HoS. Call in and post what ya bench.  (SNL vid link after screen shot).  In case you never saw the SNL skit related to the name of this thread, here it is. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 21, 2016 17:02:51 GMT -5
In my opinion: The number one problem with Steel and Shadow is having to win the Stealth roll. A melee attack should not have this restriction.
She has one good ranged attack but is really at her best as a fighter. I very much would like to see a melee Aoe added to this level 18 talent at an affordable SP cost. Adding % SP refund from attack damage doesn't excite me.
I've been blown away by the really great talent enhancements recently added to Kjartan, Tamilin and Vraes. So I've been thinking about what would be really awesome for Steel and Shadow.
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2016 21:14:51 GMT -5
I like it, but think it might be better if the Elemental damage was a bit lower and the attack also cursed with some -resistance for same duration. Would still make it a killer attack for Selen but would also help rest of party out as well, especially ones that don't have Fyona and her Strickening to help reduce Resistance. Very cool idea, I think it's better than mine. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2016 21:06:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion on this one! Very interesting. Something I'd expect to see more on a Vincent than a Selen tho. With Immolation and Sacrifice worked, Steel and Shadow is on the short list Yeah I got the idea from Fyona's Zealous Strikes combined with attributes of Vincent's Elemental Sundering on steroids. The numbers are high because some critters can have a heck of allot of resistance. Adding elemental damage is a way of going crazy good without adding more critical % bonus P.S. Not trying to be a smarta** but a % Critical group buff on immolation is something I'd expect to see on Selen than Kjartan.  |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2016 21:00:50 GMT -5
This would completely slaughter on my Strickening group... Terrific observation I didn't even think about that! Perhaps others will join us to pellere fallen and Cory Trese to consider this enhancement? The Latin word pellere, meaning “to cause to move” or “to drive,” gives us the root pel. Words from the Latin pellere have something to do with driving or causing something to move. To propel is to drive forward. To compel is to drive someone to do something. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2016 20:38:40 GMT -5
For weeks I haven't been able to think of a really cool enhancement to Steel and Shadow. Some of the awesome changes that recently enhanced other character talents fired up my imagination. Purposed enhancements to Selen's level(18) Steel and Shadow Talent. 1. Drop the "On Surprise" prerequisite, and % Critical bonus. Replace with 3 Turn buff attack Aoe. On hit adds +Accuracy, and elemental damage (fire, ice, earth, lightning). The accuracy and elemental damage bonus applies when the attack lands a hit and lasts for 3 Turns. The cross and block shaped Aoe are not part of the bonus, they are on with every attack. Note: Steel and Shadow is a melee Aoe buff attack, and does not apply to ranged. | Steel and Shadow(1) | W/5 | +4 Accuracy +6 Damage Cross Shaped Aoe on hit 3 turn Buff for +2 melee Accuracy +16 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(2) | W/7 | +5 Accuracy +8 Damage on hit +2 melee accuracy +26 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(3) | W/10 | +6 Accuracy +12 Damage on hit +3 accuracy +36 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(4) | W/12 | +8 Accuracy +15 Damage becomes 3x3 Block Shaped Aoe on hit +3 Accuracy +46 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(5) | W/12 | +9 Accuracy +18 Damage on hit +4 Accuracy +56 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(6) | W/14 | +10 Accuracy +20 Damage on hit +5 Accuracy +66 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(7) | W/17 | +11 Accuracy +24 Damage on hit +6 Accuracy +76 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(8) | W/20 | +12 Accuracy +28 Damage on hit +6 Acuracy +86 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(9) | W/22 | +14 Accuracy +32 Damage on hit +7 Accuracy +96 Elemental Damage | | Steel and Shadow(10) | W/24 | +15 Accuracy +36 Damage on hit +8 Accuracy +112 Elemental Damage |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 20, 2016 18:45:51 GMT -5
I remember how cool my first girlfriends dad was. He had a cassette tape drive for his computer and let me save stuff on it. Had my own cassette with the save info for the text game we'd play when I was over there.  Pretty sure at 49 there are a bunch of people older here, but some days I feel positively ancient. Fact that I'm the baby of the family and a couple of my brothers are already past retirement doesn't help lol. Yep. I'm nearing 53 and sometimes feel like I'm nearing 63. O.o I think John Robinson is older than me, but I could be wrong. Let's find The Oldest Member On The Forum. We could give a small prize, for being the oldest Templar. =) I'm not really sure how old I am. First there was Molly. Then after several generations of testing ntsheep proved cloning is safe and effective. So they took my head out of cryogenic storage and sowed it on to a lamb. I do have some memory loss due to freezer burn. Turn on's: Driving a convertible mini cooper. Green Salads at the Olive Garden. Turn off's: Travelling in New Zealand in the springtime. Pushy sheepdogs driving BMWs. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 14, 2016 18:47:35 GMT -5
 Did I do that?  I really enjoyed reading all the replies. I got some great tips on how to best use this newly enhanced talent. I'm totally happy to leave it as is, don't want to be the party pooper. I do have a few thoughts after reading the replies. Regarding SP cost: Restoring it to the original cost. I think it causes the level of the talent to rise at a more natural pace to the leveling of the character. As all magic users rise their SP pool will grow to very large numbers. Table 1: This was an illustration to support why I think Immolation should be restored to it's original SP cost. I did cause some unintended confusion. Yes the effects of comparing the talents isn't apples to apples. What I wanted to illustrate is the cost relationship of characters to their most powerful talents. Why did I display Kincaid's Storm of Steel(10) with the 86 SP cost ? It's the relative scale of the SP pools each character can build. Anything that causes a melee fighter like Vraes or Kincaid to spend 86 SP on a talent has a bigger impact on their available SP than the same cost for Kyera, Vincent and Kjartan. My personal opinion is; in addition to Choking Ash, Immolation is the most important talent for him to develop. In a few weeks we will wonder how we got along without it. Great analysis and glad it's sparked such good conversation on all sides! So far, happy with the changes we've made, but we will keep monitoring play data and decide if any additional tweaks are needed. John Robinson - I'll take a look at the SP cost, but am not going to change the AP dynamics of the Talent, it will stay as 3. It is very important imho that Kjartan has 3 types of attack - Firebolt (3xRound), Immolation (2xRound) and Firestorm (1xRound). This is by far the most exciting setup. Thanks for the info. That really is an awesome design having the 3xRound, 2xRound and 1xRound spells. I think that may be the case with some of the others will be looking into it. I applaud all of it, but as you know can sometimes (most of the time!?) I ask pesky questions. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 14, 2016 2:06:47 GMT -5
fallen , Cory Trese Live and direct from KHOS "Eyeball high in the Underdeep and loving it " Analysis:The new change to Immolation is an exciting, and revolutionary change to Kjartan's arsenal. With current content characters can reach level 50. Kjartan can add points to Immolation starting at level(6). He can quickly, and effortlessly reach Immolation(10). Burning Blades(1) + Immolation(10) = Permanent 17% critical bonus for all melee, ranged and spell attack talents for members in his group during combat. Why do I think of it as permanent? Kjartan will develop an SP pool in excess of 1,000 points. Dropping the cost of Immolation(10) from 64 to 48 SP, casting twice per round, will allow him to saturate the battlefield. Hitting up to 9 targets at a time, this curse lasts 3 turns, so the length will often exceed the lifespan of a 3x3 block group of enemies. The accuracy is high and can easily be increased, it has a very high probability to hit especially when combined with other characters abilities to reduce dodge. Under these circumstances I wouldn't attack any enemy that hadn't been hit with Immolation first. Assuming they survive the fire damage, the critical hit vulnerability percentage effect is essentially permanent for the life of the enemy. If critical damage depending on weapon type goes into effect, characters like Vraes using Berserk Rage will look a little out of balance to me. It also seems a little strange that allot of additional fire damage and the critical vulnerability have been added to Immolation but the SP cost has gone down. Shouldn't the higher the power of a Talent correspond to a higher SP cost? Ok, Ok maybe I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth. Proposed Tweak:1. Increase the AP cost from 3 to 4 so it can only be cast once per combat round. This doesn't prevent the entire battle field from being saturated with Immolation, but the player has to use a little more tactical judgement on when to use it. Increasing the AP reduces the appearance of the critical vulnerability becoming a permanent 17% critical combat talent bonus for all characters in Kjartan's group for the entire length of the game. (I prefer this option). Or; 2. Return Immolation 1 through 10 back to original SP cost. (I really think it should go even higher than the original price). It's all good fun anyway the chips fall, I'm just adding a little input. However if a change is made it would be better to do it sooner than later. Because after it goes into long term usage any change will probably draw some, "You Nerfed Immolation!" postings Illustrations:Table 1: Compares SP costs of contemporary Talents to the new Immolation(10) SP cost. I'm trying to offer evidence that the more powerful the talent the higher sp cost has been the trend. Table 2: I'm trying to draw your attention not only to the terrific new changes for Immolation, I also want to display side by side contrast of the old less powerful with the new more powerful Immolation. This prompted my question about why the SP cost was lowered so much, and why it should be raised. Table 1 | Immolation(10) | 3/48 | 71-161 F-Dmg +15 Acc 3x3 8+conj 16% Crit-v -8 arm |
| Ethereal Anquish(10) | 2/88 | -2 AP -7 Acc -7 Dodge 3x3 8+Conj Turns | | Burning Blades(1) | 3/5 | 1% Critical +3 Fire Damage, Group Buff 8+Conj Turns |
| Burning Blades(10) | 3/42 | 6% Critical, +36 Fire Dmg | | Dance of Shadows(10) | 3/48 | 16% Critical, +3 MP +11 Stealth |
| Cunning Footwork(10) | 3/64 | 16% Critical +6 Acc +6 P +9 D 8+Lore Turns | | Flanking Unity(10) | 3/48 | +9 Acc +24 Damage Group Buff 5+Lead Turns |
| Storm of Steel(10) | W/86 | +14 Acc +56 Dmg 3x3 Block AoE | | Flash Freeze(9) | 3/74 | -2 AP, -10 Dodge 3x3 Block 8+Conj Turns |
| E Sundering(10) | W/88 | 3x3 Block shaped attack |
Version 4.2.23 Version 4.2.27 | Version 4.2.23 | AP/SP | Effects |
| Version 4.2.25 | AP/SP | Effects | | Immolation(1) | 3/8 | 7-21 Fire Dmg +4 Acc Range 6 Cross shaped AoE |
| Immolation(1) | 3/6 | 7-22 Fire Dmg +4 Acc Block Shaped AoE Lasts 3 Turns | | Immolation(2) | 3/12 | 13-31 F-Dmg +6 Acc |
| Immolation(2) | 3/10 | 13-36 F-Dmg +6 Acc +2% Crit Vulnerability | | Immolation(3) | 3/18 | 23-46 F-Dmg +8 Acc |
| Immolation(3) | 3/14 | 23-52 F-Dmg +8 Acc +4% Crit-V | | Immolation(4) | 3/24 | 29-57 F-Dmg +9 Acc Becomes Block shaped AoE |
| Immolation(4) | 3/18 | 29-64 F-Dmg +9 Acc +6% Crit-V | | Immolation(5) | 3/30 | 36-70 F-Dmg +10 Acc |
| Immolation(5) | 3/23 | 36-77 F-Dmg +10 Acc +8% Crit-V | | Immolation(6) | 3/36 | 45-84 F-Dmg +11 Acc |
| Immolation(6) | 3/28 | 45-92 F-Dmg +11 Acc +10% Crit-V | | Immolation(7) | 3/42 | 53-98 F-Dmg +12 Acc |
| Immolation(7) | 3/34 | 53-108 F-Dmg +12 Acc +12% Crit-V -2 Armor | | Immolation(8) | 3/50 | 61-112 F-Dmg +13 Acc |
| Immolation(8) | 3/38 | 61-126 F-Dmg +13 Acc +13% Crit-V -4 Armor | | Immolation(9) | 3/58 | 71-128 F-Dmg +14 Acc |
| Immolation(9) | 3/42 | 71-146 F-Dmg +14 Acc +14% Crit-V -6 Armor | | Immolation(10) | 3/64 | 76-139 F-Dmg +15 Acc |
| Immolation(10) | 3/48 | 76-161 F-Dmg +15 Acc +16% Crit-V -8 Armor |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 9, 2016 5:35:22 GMT -5
xdesperadoGotta love "Bodacious" doesn't get any better than that
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 5, 2016 17:11:32 GMT -5
ST2 leaderboards? Will there be separate leaderboards for different operating systems or app stores? Sorry I've got to ask, but I don't have HoS or BF to see what the ST2 leaderboard would be like. To maximize our ability to promote our games on the markets, we will use the market provided leaderboards. We will use Google, Apple and Steam leaderboards. All hail world wide highest score on the ST2 leaderboard! What difficulty are you playing on? I'll be playing 90% Steam, but was wondering about the ST2 Amazon Leaderboard, (HoS currently has one.) |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 5, 2016 16:56:58 GMT -5
The two leveling improvements are to allow you to see your advancement points at any time. Simply by opening the status for your character, you can see what you can raise (Attributes, Skills, Talents) without needing to retreat to a Waypoint or an Inn. Also, within the leveling UI, if you've already reached the 10th level of a Talent, you can now still click on it to open it and see what all of its levels entail, as to plan for a respec. Excellent! Particularly like getting to see Level(10) stats on a Talent when max reached. Thank You. |
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(SNL vid link after screen shot).
I really enjoyed reading all the replies. I got some great tips on how to best use this newly enhanced talent.
