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Post by fallen on Jun 17, 2015 9:02:15 GMT -5
We've just released an updated version of the Tutorial for Battleforce.
If you are interested, please consider replaying the tutorial and doing a "close read" on the advice that is given.
With alpha help, we've already improved a lot of the advice. However, I know that:
(1) it can be better and clearer.
(2) there are things we should cover that we aren't
Please provide specific suggestions, especially #2 is of interest!
Note: there are still tutorial sections for the HQ screens coming.
List of Great Suggestions
- Explain the 2-step process for buying Ordnance with SP and then using it on a specific Templar
- Add dialog pointing out spawning point visuals
- Add dialog suggesting that you OW on top of spawning points
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Post by fallen on Jun 29, 2015 20:33:00 GMT -5
Ok, I've re-opened this thread. If you are playing the tutorial, please consider giving tips, or improvements suggestions!
A tutorial sets the tone of the game. It also is the doorway to the rest of the game and hooks gamers -- it needs to be smooth, informative and fun.
What can we do better? We always want to improve.
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Post by ntsheep on Jun 29, 2015 22:44:55 GMT -5
Not liking the new level 3 at the moment. I've tried it 8 times on Normal and each time it's been different with which power nodes blow and which ones don't. Losing my knights to xenos that spawn right next to them and attack. Missing the old level 3 right now, but I'll keep trying the new one.
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Post by fallen on Jun 29, 2015 22:59:16 GMT -5
Not liking the new level 3 at the moment. I've tried it 8 times on Normal and each time it's been different with which power nodes blow and which ones don't. Losing my knights to xenos that spawn right next to them and attack. Missing the old level 3 right now, but I'll keep trying the new one. Sorry you dislike the new level. Yes, the power nodes which are working are different every time you play the level. This is great for replay and keeps the challenge up. I found 2 spawn points that were not clearly visually marked, and have fixed them. All the rest are indicated by alien creep, gaping holes in the walls, or broken floor vents. If you're struggling with the level, I'd suggest trying to play it more methodically and not rushing to hit the turn goal. |
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Post by Kanly on Jun 29, 2015 23:05:34 GMT -5
I like the random elements of the third level. I found them to be a nice improvement, but I also think it is a bit tough for a tutorial level as well. Since there are no points to defend, you have to travel past the xeno spawn points, and often a hunter will spawn right on top of you. It took me four tries on normal to get it the first time.
Perhaps there could be a dialogue about the specific xeno spawn indicators to look out for.
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Post by ntsheep on Jun 29, 2015 23:28:01 GMT -5
Finally got through L3. I agree that the randomness is neat and adds replay. Just another surprise I wasn't expecting. I was being very careful each try. Not trying to rush, there were certain points it seemed like I had to split my team up too much. Other than that, I really am enjoying the new sights and sounds. Don't take my complaining to hard. I'm not giving up yet and still want this game to blast off and be the next great TB hit  |
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Post by fallen on Jun 29, 2015 23:37:01 GMT -5
I am building a list of great suggestions in the OP. Definitely suggest putting your OW on top of those spawns. That will help  |
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Post by fallen on Jun 30, 2015 15:04:51 GMT -5
Thanks to ntsheep for pointing out the missing part about how to use Ordnance. Added to the list. |
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Post by contributor on Jun 30, 2015 16:16:06 GMT -5
I also found the 3rd level to be quite difficult. It took me two tries on Brutal but I lost my engineer on the last one. It's a fun level, but in the tutorial I see it as a huge potential turn-off to people who are just trying this game out to see if it's any fun. You really want to avoid huge difficulty spikes in the tutorial, because people don't know the game yet and they might figure it just keeps getting more and more difficult at the same pace.
Also the 4th level (if it's going to stay as a counter-attack) has never made much sense to me plot wise. We're in a hurry to catch up to the rest of the fleet. We miraculously got the guns working so we could "shred" the alien vessel and now we're going to stop and take the time to send 7 Templars over to board it? I like the idea of introducing players to the creepy insides of the alien ship, but it needs to make sense. I'm sure you could write in a good reason why we can't leave all the fun to the gunners (Our scans determined that this is a command ship and now that it's crippled we have a chance to figure out why these xenos are so uniquely cunning etc.). If not it maybe makes more sense to mount an attack on their commander who is now stranded on our ship and still highly dangerous.
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Post by fallen on Jun 30, 2015 16:27:56 GMT -5
contributor - thanks for the feedback. What exactly did you find most challenging about L3? Sorry that the tutorial text and cinematics aren't finished. We will try to be more clear. The xeno carrier has rammed the Righteous Fallen, and while the guns are back on line and firing, they do so at a very dangerous range (see the moment in ST, when you get warning firing guns at boarding range ... "There is grave dangerous to our Ship and Crew"). As you often find in ST RPG, at this time, the answer is to finish the fight in a counter-boarding action. Hopefully, the additional dialog, inter-level cinematics, and animations will back this up. EDIT: Good suggestion, moving on to a new goal gives the player a better sense of accomplishment. Gun the first xeno carrier into pieces (uh oh) and charge the second ...
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Post by contributor on Jun 30, 2015 16:49:12 GMT -5
I think main thing is that you have to cover a lot of ground and when you don't know the level (as new players won't) you're not likely to do it in a very efficient manner. That means you're going to be in that level for a long time and with no reinforcements and no healing and things blowing up everywhere forcing you to walk through fire you're going to lose one or two templars. This game is all about doing stuff fast, before you're overwhelmed by the spawn rate. If I do it again, I'll be splitting my forces and running as fast as I can to get to all the nodes before there's xenos everywhere. I don't know if the turn bonus on there is intentional or if you just through a random number out there, but that is the only way it could be done. Otherwise I think people are going to spending 30 turns or more in this level get the job done and that has it's own dangers. Also both times I did it I took very heavy damage from the nodes blowing up and having to walk back out through fire. I'll have to go back and the read the dialogue again, but I was under the impression the first time that the engineer had to get to every node. That might have been a hang over from the tutorial V1. It would have been helpful to know that everyone can flip the switch on the nodes. Another thing that might help would be to put some health ordnance drops around the map and heads up to be looking for left over supplies.
All that makes me think. I didn't see anything in the tutorial so far that is helping people figure out that this game is about getting in and out ASAP. People need to know that this is not a take-and-hold game, which it's easy to get the impression from TPs that it is. The more you can help set peoples expectations about the need to move quickly and not get over-run, the better.
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Post by fallen on Jun 30, 2015 16:57:08 GMT -5
contributor - great set of suggestions, thanks for that. Sounds like time on map compounded with spawning rate and fire eventually just cranks the difficulty too high. It is a great time to be mentioning the speedy nature of Templar deployments. All turn goals are determined from playing the level a number of times in succession and testing Cory and my average speeds, and then adjusting a little. Health Ordnance is perfect, as I was really looking for a place to talk about using Ordnance! Great suggestions across teh boards.
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Post by ntsheep on Jun 30, 2015 17:11:04 GMT -5
I don't think that the new turn goal is to bad. Level 3 has always been the one that really test you out the most. Before only the engineer could turn on a node, now anyone can. Before the was a pattern to turn on the nodes. Now it's a crap shoot. It does feel a bit rushed, but that could just be me. Everyone has their own style of play and what works for one may seem off the wall to another. How does every one else feel about the new level 3. I like the new design and that every one can turn on a node. Maybe there could be a Minor Meditech or two scattered around and this would be how to introduce using Ordnance?
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Post by contributor on Jun 30, 2015 17:19:20 GMT -5
I don't think that the new turn goal is to bad. Level 3 has always been the one that really test you out the most. Before only the engineer could turn on a node, now anyone can. Before the was a pattern to turn on the nodes. Now it's a crap shoot. It does feel a bit rushed, but that could just be me. Everyone has their own style of play and what works for one may seem off the wall to another. How does every one else feel about the new level 3. I like the new design and that every one can turn on a node. Maybe there could be a Minor Meditech or two scattered around and this would be how to introduce using Ordnance? This post is very different from your first one on this level. It's true that our impressions of levels do change over time and I think this is actually a good level (just not certain it's good for the tutorial), but if experienced players (ok nobody is super experienced yet) are having to repeat the level 4 and 8 times on normal, a total newby might just get so frustrated he walks away. |
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Post by fallen on Jun 30, 2015 17:20:54 GMT -5
We will definitely be reducing the level of difficulty on L3. We will be adding healing Ordnance and some tutorial around that.
I think it's a great level for the tutorial in it shows some of the fun things the game can offer with "more than the basic" objectives, randomness, and replay.
We moved the big power relay snake game out because it was too hard and put this in. This one, we just have to shave down until it's easy enough. If needed, I will remove half the spawn points.
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