Directional Area of Effect Vectors and Templates

[En1gma]

Attention: Major overhaul on my OP is mostly done. I'm going to do my best to confirm which squares will be affected by the vectors, but may end up just replacing them with rays, indicating which direction the vector will follow.

I'm much happier with this post now, and I'm sure the information contained is much more accurate.

A new section was added discussing the difference between MISS and SOAK, in order to further clarify.

fallen, if you feel this thread is accurate enough, maybe it could become a stickied thread? It seems that enough people are having issues understanding how these rules work.

[tenbsmith]

En1gma, thanks much for this very useful thread.

Another option for increasing accessibility would be to have a link to this thread in the opening post of the Combat Mechanics thread.

[John Robinson]

En1gma great idea about adding this thread to the Heroes and Monsters Tables

Done!

[Blitz]

Aug 25, 2014 11:35:50 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Diagonal attack vector. 180 degree template. PC EXACTLY diagonal to TE.

PC
					E!
				E	E!
			TE	E	E!
		E	E	E	E?
	E!	E!	E!	E?	E?

I thought, from the little pictures in the corner in the talents screen, it would be like this. Is that screen inaccurate?

PC
			TE	3	6	10
			3	4	10
			6	10
			10

where 
PC=Player character
TE=Target enemy
Number=number of squares affected by skill

[anrdaemon]

Mar 8, 2015 5:47:44 GMT -5 Blitz said:

I thought, from the little pictures in the corner in the talents screen, it would be like this. Is that screen inaccurate?

Directional abilities would've been nearly useless, if the pattern in the talent description would've been accurate.
However, the width of the attack front depends on the distance.
From exactly 2 squares it may not hit 3 targets up front. From 3 squares, it always do.

[Blitz]

I don't understand this at all. This is what a 4 square lightning square attack seems to work on for me

			4	4	4
			4	TE
							4	4
					PC		TE	4
		4					4	4
		4	TE
		4	4	4

The little figure in the talent screen shows 4 squares but the effect is MUCH MORE!

[Blitz]

Mar 8, 2015 6:28:56 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Mar 8, 2015 5:47:44 GMT -5 Blitz said:

I thought, from the little pictures in the corner in the talents screen, it would be like this. Is that screen inaccurate?

Directional abilities would've been nearly useless, if the pattern in the talent description would've been accurate.
However, the width of the attack front depends on the distance.
From exactly 2 squares it may not hit 3 targets up front. From 3 squares, it always do.

Oh, distance too, eh? Ok, now I really want to know what the math behind all this is...

And probably file a bug saying that the description is inaccurate

[En1gma]

Mar 8, 2015 6:28:56 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Mar 8, 2015 5:47:44 GMT -5 Blitz said:

I thought, from the little pictures in the corner in the talents screen, it would be like this. Is that screen inaccurate?

Directional abilities would've been nearly useless, if the pattern in the talent description would've been accurate.
However, the width of the attack front depends on the distance.
From exactly 2 squares it may not hit 3 targets up front. From 3 squares, it always do.

Incorrect. Distance has ZERO effect on the template.

[En1gma]

I will update the OP to include that, too anrdaemon, not to leave you hanging. I'll extrapolate for you here, though:

As stated in the OP, the attack must first make it through the TE's defensive saves. If it makes it through, then all other enemies within the template throw to make their own saves (however it does seem easier to affect a creature with higher save values if a lower enemy is targeted- fallen, can you confirm this- is there a save (i.e. Dodge) that gets ignored if a creature is within the template but is not targeted?) If the other creatupass fail their saves/soak, they too are struck by the ability, and roll for damages as usual. If enemies within the template aren't taking damage or being affected by the ability, they either pass their saves or soak the attack.

Blitz- I'll go through the OP to see if I can further clarify the issues you presented. The diagrams on the abilities themselves seem to be more of an indicator of the distance the effect will travel downrange once it hits its first mark.

Hope this clears things up, let me know if you have any more questions

[anrdaemon]

I can never have succes at point blank range. 2 squares - only first taget hit, 3 or a slight shift to the side - and it gets better.

[En1gma]

anrdaemon are you lowering resistances/armour/dodge/parry? All of these factor into wether or not you will 1) hit in the first place, and 2) make it past armour/resistance soak...

Having the ability hit less targets the closer the PC is to the TE would render Vincent useless, and there have been many times where I've had him fry 6-9 enemies starting at square 2...

[crimsonking]

As far as I understood (the developers may correct me), targeting follows these rules:

1. the target in question (TiQ) must be farther away from the caster than the original target (OT), counting vertical and horizontal steps

2. the angle between the lines drawn from the caster to the OT and from the caster to the TiQ must be below a fertain number defined by the talent and talent level

3. the TiQ must be within a number of vertical and horizontal steps from the OT defined by talent and talent level

If these assumptions are correct than it is indeed possible to catch less targets if you cast from up close, and this fits with my observations.

[bobc]

From my experience En1gma has nailed it in this write-up and his templates have been pretty consistant.  If things go awry I find it is usually because my attacks are being dodged/soaked rather than any flaws in the template.

The devs originally explained aoe back in the linked thread and in general I think the templates hold true.

startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/7550/lightning-spear-aoe#ixzz3TsCDh17t

[Blitz]

May 2, 2014 11:59:57 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Heroes of Steel is ultimately designed to be in the "board game style" of table top games, and Vince's LS rules are a homage to that.

* You tap Target1

* A line is drawn from Vincent to the center of the Target1 and Range is checked.

* The Target1 is attacked. If the Target1 is hit, continue to {Targets}

* For each Target2 in {Targets} Check distance from Vincent to Target2 . Must be greater or equal than than Target1 distance

* Check angle to Target2 from Vincent. Can be no more than 30' different than the angle to Target1.

This makes a cone, but means you MUST shoot from offset to be awesomest.

In "A" and "B" you should move east 1 tile.

In "C" you should move west 1 tile.

I believe range does have an effect. Thanks to bobc for the link

[En1gma]

I'm sorry, but still incorrect. As long as the first target is within striking range, the template remains the same. fallen Cory Trese can I get a confirmation?

Blitz what you quoted is the long way of saying that you will never hit a target between the TE and yourself. What that describes is a distance check/template parameter