Directional Area of Effect Vectors and Templates

[bobc]

I think that range does have an effect, but it is an angular effect as reported by crimsonking in his earlier post.

My understanding of the aoe stuff is that after hitting the intended target, there is the chance of hitting secondary targets providing they are at a greater distance than the intended target and fall within a 60 degree cone boresighted on the intended target.  As range increases the 'spread' of the cone will broaden and will encompass more targets.

So, again, in my experience the templates are spot on and I have used them to great effect many times.  However, I use them to show me where to stand in relation to the target group for maximum effect, not as a defacto statement of what I can hit standing exactly at the range as depicted in the template.

If the ranges in the templates are meant to be an actual representation, then apologies to En1gma for doing him a disservice.

[En1gma]

The only effect PC range to the TE has is making the template harder to judge due to the squares and their corresponding angles become more obscured.

I've been using LS 10 on my furthest game since before we beat the Baron. He is my main damage dealer for the entire group. If he had to reposition himself to be more effective at a range I honestly think I would have noticed it. He hits just as hard (and as many targets) from 2 squares as he does at max range of 4. Keep in mind he has likely used this over a thousand times (in this game and others) without variation in effectiveness.

I just don't want anyone to think that I'm just being argumentative here...

[En1gma]

Made another update to further clarify things, and include Cory Trese's mention that the Templates will always fill in the sides of the template first.

[samopop]

En1gma - Thanks for making such an awesome resource!  I have one suggestion: in your AOE graphs where you use E(!?) to label which enemies will be hit by the effect, it would be really nice to subdivide the E's into E1/E2/E3 representing targets hit in a 4 wedge effect, 6 wedge effect, and a 10 wedge effect.

[En1gma]

I'm glad you find it useful, samopop!

The ! and ? marks are still there because I can't say for sure if they are included or not. What I could really use is for fallen or Cory Trese to confirm them for me, because they can set the enemies up and knock them down... I don't want to confirm them bc I'm not 100% sure of them...

[anrdaemon]

Mar 8, 2015 7:22:26 GMT -5 Blitz said:

Mar 8, 2015 6:28:56 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

From exactly 2 squares it may not hit 3 targets up front. From 3 squares, it always do.

Oh, distance too, eh? Ok, now I really want to know what the math behind all this is...

And probably file a bug saying that the description is inaccurate

In retrospect of startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/11038/lightning-spear-targeting-bug I think my observation was skewed by the effect discussed in the thread.

[En1gma]

Revised the OP to include a warning about the likely bug concerning attacks made from east to west. Again, if anyone is able to confirm that attacks are being rolled as usual, I will re-amend my OP.

[krakun]

En1gma, my experiments seem to confirm what anrdaemon, crimsonking and Blitz are saying regarding the influence of distance on templates.

Setup 1:

..3
..2
X.1

Setup 2:

....3
....2
X...1


X is Selen firing Pinning Shot 8 at target 1. All targets are heavily debuffed (Crippling Strikes 6 and Choking Ash 6).

In setup 1 target 3 is never hit. In setup 2 target 3 is always hit. This seems to match Cory Trese's assertion that targets must be within a cone delineated by two lines drawn each at 30 degrees angle of baseline from attacker to target.

[En1gma]

Not sure on this one. In my experience using Directional AoE, distance has no bearing whatsoever on the template.

Having used LS 10 extensively, Vincent had never had to worry about hitting those targets, and hits just as many at 2 range as 4.

I also don't think distance has any bearing on the template chosen because if this was a rule, then Vincent would be at a serious disadvantage over Selen or Tam because this rule would cripple his ability to hit groups effectively.

I'll ask Cory Trese to clarify, but I see no need to amend the post as of yet.

[fallen]

Distance is not a factor.

[krakun]

I respectfully insist.

Please attempt the following experiment:
1) Create a boost in group, give Vincent LS10, and Selen lots of stealth. Go to the store rooms.
Defeat the ratkins in the first room, they are not important.

2) Go east then north, to the tiny room that is 3 by 6 and chock full of ratkins, open with Selen to win the stealth roll.

Observe the difference
3a) if Vincent stands in the doorway, and targets the ratkin 2 north of him

Vs

3b) if Vincent stands two tiles south of the doorway, and targets the ratkin now 4 tiles straight north

[fallen]

krakun - thanks for the post. I can second Cory's post on the thread about this "thanks for the posts - this is not a priority atm and we are not spending any time on it. It is on our list."

I posted only to share my understanding of the code, as one of the developers who wrote and tested the system.

[Blitz]

Jul 29, 2015 10:09:47 GMT -5 fallen said:

Distance is not a factor.

May 2, 2014 11:59:57 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Heroes of Steel is ultimately designed to be in the "board game style" of table top games, and Vince's LS rules are a homage to that.

* You tap Target1

* A line is drawn from Vincent to the center of the Target1 and Range is checked.

* The Target1 is attacked. If the Target1 is hit, continue to {Targets}

* For each Target2 in {Targets} Check distance from Vincent to Target2 . Must be greater or equal than than Target1 distance

* Check angle to Target2 from Vincent. Can be no more than 30' different than the angle to Target1.

This makes a cone, but means you MUST shoot from offset to be awesomest.

......

Both Scenarios are Vincent with LS5 which I'm assuming is the 30' is for. Also, what changes from across levels? Does the wedge angle change?

Scenario 1

V				1
			2	3

*You tap on Target 1.
*A line is drawn from Vincent to 1 and range is found to be 4.
*Target 1 is hit.
*Continue to Target 2.
*Distance to Target 2 from Vincent is ~3.6 which is less than 4.
*Target 2 is not hit.
*Continue to Target 3.
*Distance to Target 3 from Vincent is ~4.5 which is greater than 4.
*Angle to Target 3 from Vincent compared to Target 1 is 30' which is within limits.
*Target 3 can be hit.

Scenario 2

		V		1
			2	3

*You tap on Target 1.
*A line is drawn from Vincent to 1 and range is found to be 2.
*Target 1 is hit.
*Continue to Target 2.
*Distance to Target 2 from Vincent is ~2.2 which is greater than 2.
*Angle to Target 2 from Vincent compared to Target 1 is 60' which is greater than 30'.
*Target 2 is not hit.
*Continue to Target 3.
*Distance to Target 3 from Vincent is ~2.8 which is greater than 2.
*Angle to Target 3 from Vincent compared to Target 1 is 45' which is greater than 30'.
*Target 3 is not hit.




What am I misunderstanding? According to my understanding of the logic involved, distance does matter. I'm totally confused now.
Could you please clarify, and maybe explain how the code works?
Thanks!

[En1gma]

The primary rule here is that once the TE is selected, NOTHING that is between the PC and the TE will be hit after that. These talents travel DOWN range, and don't come back in the direction of the character who used them.

[Blitz]

Aug 9, 2015 6:14:53 GMT -5 En1gma said:

The primary rule here is that once the TE is selected, NOTHING that is between the PC and the TE will be hit after that. These talents travel DOWN range, and don't come back in the direction of the character who used them.

OK, although according to the rules that are posted, it depends on the wedge angle. I still don't understand if that changes or how the distance limit is counted.

My point here is that the logic seems to suggest that distance does matter and I'm currently a LS10 boosted build and I'm completely confused.