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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 12, 2016 16:37:52 GMT -5
Yes, range is your friend. This is an extension of a balancing rule set that also includes the oft-discussed minimum range to use ranged attacks rule.
This particular set of balancing rules exists to facilitate rewarding the player for maximizing their positional advantage against the AI during their attack turn.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 12, 2016 16:54:04 GMT -5
That's along the lines I was thinking, why charged speed 6mp is so awesome, thanks for confirmation.
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Post by En1gma on Mar 12, 2016 17:42:12 GMT -5
I'm so ready to scrap this thread... I would kill to have the actual rules explained in detail, so I can stop feeling like an idiot and write the information in this thread accurately instead of swinging in the dark.
I have never seen this supposed range rule in effect, despite playing Vincent since day one. I'll add Kincaid tonight and leave this alone until I can have some higher level of clarification.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 12, 2016 17:54:40 GMT -5
En1gma It's not a range rule per se in this case, it's a consequence of the angle AoE. It's the same reason if irl you walk right up to a wall that's all you see, besides maybe your nose and shadow, but if you back up more things can come into view...
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Post by En1gma on Mar 12, 2016 18:06:13 GMT -5
In my experience, LS 10 has exactly the same template if I'm at 2 range or 4. Pinning shot has exactly the same template at 2 and at 6 or 7. Unless I'm not talking about the same thing as you, in which case I need more coffee and I apologize.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 12, 2016 18:20:34 GMT -5
In my experience, LS 10 has exactly the same template if I'm at 2 range or 4. Pinning shot has exactly the same template at 2 and at 6 or 7. Unless I'm not talking about the same thing as you, in which case I need more coffee and I apologize. Get some grid paper and a protractor, measuring 30 degree angles, either side of TE at range 1 [ToS] to 8 [ps, ro] and see how more squares [with enemies] may fall within the AoE if you change position. Use marks in the squares for enemies. I don't know if area covered per square is rounded or the whole square must be encompassed by the AoE angle... I believe krakun had it more or less right with the diagrams he posted on the previous page too. |
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Post by anrdaemon on Mar 12, 2016 19:21:29 GMT -5
You may take any grids and protractors, but the shape doesn't change regardless of distance. This is my experience too. I take Cory's reply as an [unintentional] attempt to mislead. En1gma, I'm working on a way to express templates in a more clear way. Will post in a day or two, as my workflow permit. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 12, 2016 19:34:25 GMT -5
You may take any grids and protractors, but the shape doesn't change regardless of distance. This is my experience too. I take Cory's reply as an [unintentional] attempt to mislead. En1gma, I'm working on a way to express templates in a more clear way. Will post in a day or two, as my workflow permit. The shape doesn't change from what En1gma says. The enemies that get encompassed by the shape does... You said the range was a factor in March of of 2015, I think page two of the thread. |
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Post by En1gma on Mar 12, 2016 19:44:55 GMT -5
I still have never seen anything in game to support this claim... I've fried entire clumps of enemies with LS 10, same template and number of enemies, at every possible range and angle.
At this point, I have no idea...
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 12, 2016 19:52:50 GMT -5
I still have never seen anything in game to support this claim... I've fried entire clumps of enemies with LS 10, same template and number of enemies, at every possible range and angle. At this point, I have no idea... Well Andrew has implied you're correct, while Cory has incidentally implied Krakun was so...  I need to play more myself to know for sure too. that's why I wanted overlays to begin with. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 13, 2016 0:50:11 GMT -5
You may take any grids and protractors, but the shape doesn't change regardless of distance. This is my experience too. I take Cory's reply as an [unintentional] attempt to mislead. LOL. Just, LOL.  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 13, 2016 0:55:34 GMT -5
In an effort to kill this thread, I will take a few hours and write out all the radians and vector math for everyone on the forum to review.
Regardless of what anyone *believes* the math is ultimately what decides the vector, so that's probably the one thing that's going to make this particular discussion stop.
It's a dead horse, but if you want me to beat it some more, by god that horse-corpse is in trouble.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 13, 2016 1:15:02 GMT -5
You know me, I love a good flogging of a dead horse spectacle. I drag a whole herd of them behind me and a bundle of sticks for just such occasions, not to mention the monkey on my back and the albatross around my neck.:-p
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 13, 2016 1:21:52 GMT -5
I'm so ready to scrap this thread... I would kill to have the actual rules explained in detail, so I can stop feeling like an idiot and write the information in this thread accurately instead of swinging in the dark. I have never seen this supposed range rule in effect, despite playing Vincent since day one. I'll add Kincaid tonight and leave this alone until I can have some higher level of clarification. So who'd you kill to get Cory to do the math for us ... was it the horse he's going to, figuratively, go to town on for us? :-p |
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 13, 2016 1:46:24 GMT -5
Cory TreseI'm really not concerned about the math etc. However I have noticed with Selen using Pinning Shot that if I shoot due east or due west at a target any enemy directly south of that target will never get hit. If they are on a diagonal to south east or southwest then PS5 will occasionally hit them but the miss chance seems higher. Other directions of fire and angles seem to all function as expected. If those two would at least occasionally hit I'd be willing to chalk it up to my bad luck, but they literally never hit.
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I need to play more myself to know for sure too. that's why I wanted overlays to begin with.
